GNOME 3.x Will Bring Back Some GNOME 2 Features

[Kamikaze]

Well, I am a programmer too, and had basically no problem adapting my workflow to Gnome-Shell.

Really? I'm a developer too, and my workspace is pretty much filled with exactly the same applications as hubick described + SQL Developer, and a ton of terminal windows.

I am using GS on a laptop

Ahh.. you do all your development on a laptop? So you're already used to having no screen real estate and minimal apps open to get by?

[gens]

So far as minimizing goes, GNOME is trying to avoid the behavior of hiding applications in an abstracted list. It's not a very natural behavior, and it may only seem so because most of us have been using task lists for a very long time. They don't represent much, and they are usually small targets for the mouse

putting stuff in boxes for later use is one of the most natural things people do
in fact it is so natural that every work desk, even computer work desk, has at least one drawer
taskbars therefore are the most natural and comfortable way of having windows open that one will not use for a while

gnome3 way of doing things is like having a desk with a couple piles of things
while you may have overview and an illusion of control, the fact is you got a lot of junk on your work desk
(if you were an electrician, mechanic or something similar; you'd have lots of problems and probably injuries...)


so no, gnome3 way is not natural for most people
it is natural for people that usually have messy desks
(even thou i have a really messy desk, i still use the drawer for things i need once a day/month/etc)

to clarify what i mean by "piles";
if you open 3 terminals like i usually have and press alt+tab, you will find them in a sub-thingy grouped together
then you have to use the arrow keys


so in my opinion it is obvious that gnome3 was made for a tablet, not for a desktop

[kigurai]

Really? I'm a developer too, and my workspace is pretty much filled with exactly the same applications as hubick described + SQL Developer, and a ton of terminal windows.

Yes, really.

Ahh.. you do all your development on a laptop? So you're already used to having no screen real estate and minimal apps open to get by?

Nope, just recently started using a laptop. And since it has a 1920x1080 resolution, it is not much different from using my workstation (1920x1200). It's just a lot smaller

Do you have any other assumptions about my workflow, or can you accept that there are people doing "real work" who are quite happy with GNOME3 and Gnome-Shell? :P

[jackmitch]

I also have no issues with the Gnome 3 workflow and I am an Embedded Software developer.

I have windows galore with no issues, I really don't understand what problems people have.

[gens]

I also have no issues with the Gnome 3 workflow and I am an Embedded Software developer.

I have windows galore with no issues, I really don't understand what problems people have.

i have a problem with many terminals and alt+tab treating them as a pile
and as i don't have a high resolution display, meta key thing doesn't help

by the time i find the terminal where i have to execute something, i forget what i was testing


how do you expect people to understand your view if you dont even try understanding theirs ?

[jackmitch]

how do you expect people to understand your view if you dont even try understanding theirs ?

Sorry, the above was meant to be phrased as a question, I was genuinely interesed in the use cases people had issues with.

by the time i find the terminal where i have to execute something, i forget what i was testing

If I have multiple terminals, all on one desktop, I usually use the Windows key to open the 'tile' display or whatever it is called and then select the requred terminal.

Failing that, there is an extension[1] which ungroups windows so they're easily selectable.

[1] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/

[jackmitch]

i have a problem with many terminals and alt+tab treating them as a pile
and as i don't have a high resolution display, meta key thing doesn't help

by the time i find the terminal where i have to execute something, i forget what i was testing


how do you expect people to understand your view if you dont even try understanding theirs ?

Sorry, the above was intended as a question, I am genuinely interested in use cases people have which don't work.

In this instance where I have multiple windows behind each other on one desktop I would use the Windows key and select the terminal I wanted.

Failing that there is an extension which allows ungrouping of similar windows and also tabs accross multiple workspaces [1].

[1] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/15/alternatetab/

[kigurai]

i have a problem with many terminals and alt+tab treating them as a pile
and as i don't have a high resolution display, meta key thing doesn't help

I put at most one or two terminals per workspace, and use tabs to group similar tasks.
My usual setup is to have one workspace for general stuff (e-mail, web, ...) where I open terminals if I need it (install package, move some files, ...).
Second and third workspace is where I do work. Usually I can manage with only one of these.
In the work workspace I usually do data collection and analysis. So I keep two two separate terminal windows open (one for collection, one for analysis). Since they each require multiple terminals, I open lots of tabs in each terminal window.

Now I can change between collection and analysis using Alt-<key above tab>, and then Alt-<1,2,3,...> to change to tabs within the terminal window.
Since Alt-<key above tab> chooses windows in the same workspace first, before windows in other workspaces, this works nicely.

[disi]

For the quick terminal background job in between, I use https://extensions.gnome.org/extensi...down-terminal/
Hitting the (quake-terminal)button rolls down a terminal, which starts a tmux session for me.

[3coma3]

This is just another account of how amazingly full of shit the GNOME team (Red Hat, let's just call it with it real name) continues to be. On one hand they continue NACKing the problems with their environment people have been shouting into their ears from the last two years -at least-; while now on the other they tacitally ACK them but in the same vein they do everything: arrogantly, reluctantly, thinking only about control.

As clearly showed in this eye-opening essay (and the numerous links and comments that spawned in many levels deep), the GNOME team themselves have made clear both extensions and themes are detrimental to their goal of tight CONTROL over every aspect of your involvement with GNOME, whether you are a mere user, a theme or extension dev, a third app dev, or a distro dev.

So much for the argument that "Gnome shell sucks less because you can make it so by using extensions". People, they DON'T WANT THAT. They themselves say it loudly and clearly and without a trace of regret. They *won't* change what you expect them to change. Just read carefully the linked post above. They broke the extensions and themes on each release intentionally. Now they "tackle" this issue...

At this point what they are asking themselves is this:

"how do we attempt to save our project while NOT having to ackowledge the criticism, and NOT having to drop an inch of control??".

Answer: We take control of the extensions, and not third parties.

For them it is a good solution, they tackle many angles at once: tighten control, avoid change, pretend change, do something about public oppinion.

In the end the outcome will be decided by the sum of the personal choice each of us has to make between "do I stop, do I stand back against people that are against what this OS was always about, do I turn my back on them and take some weight on me" or "I need the short term gain of not distracting myself with ackowledging there is a problem here and reacting to it: that myself, as a user, as a contributor to this scene am not in these people plans". Do you keep pluging your ears and go "lalalalalala everything is awesome" like these people want you to do?.

You may call me delusional, I won't give a shit. I think many of the people that have been here from the beginning in the nineties, haven't (or haven't completely yet) forgot the struggles and years of effort on part of each member in this community to get to where we got a few years ago. The issue here is *money*. The issue here is *companies wanting to subvert Linux ecosystems for money*. Just take a look at what company employees the key GNOME devs are, for christ sake. To the younger, uninformed people: educate yourselves, don't take for granted what you have now, and yes, *fight* to conserve your power over it. If you are "just" a user, your power resides in your CHOICE, and in your OPPINION. If you are a dev, you also have the power of FORK, the power of NOT PLAYING THE GAME.

Oh and hi to all. This is my first post (registered to say this).