Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
This is the first time I have heard someone use Red Hat's FOSS contributions against them, and it makes for an interesting if somewhat tedious argument. It might have some value if Red Hat were directly making money from Gnome, or SystemD, and the myriad of other projects they are involved with, but they are not (at least not directly, they are of course profiting handily from a healthy Linux ecosystem) so your argument for control seems somewhat baffling. What I see is Red Hat trying to make an effort to push Linux forward, and that sometimes involves the cooperation of different parts. Red Hat's position behind all of these parts can be easily explained by realizing just how much of Linux Red Hat has contributed in the first place. I am not going to scald them for it, especially since the control element is mooted in a free software ecosystem anyway (as in gentoo forked udev, for instance).
Whenever I hear a RH supporter answer to stances like I've exposed (this is, if one can get through succesive dismissal, attack and condescendy) it will be like this: baffled, almost astonished, like the picture is so weird it has to come from another galaxy. No wonder you find it tedious to discuss it. I assure you the tedious is nothing compared with having to deal with this "pushing forward of Linux". In any case, I correlate your argument with this other: "Microsoft/Apple have contributed a lot to pushing forward computing and the industry, how can you critisize them? This is using their contributions against them." It's misleading. Why the need to mislead, to focus on some "unexplained hatred" completely undeserved, and (also) from unqualified people, like just users?

I'll try again to refocus the issue here: not on the quality/quantity of systems contributed by a company, but on the other aspects that taken into account, drastically affect the very nature of the first two aspects, indeed picturing them into something now not so positive as one would like: like interests and motivations, ideologies, "ways" of doing stuff and relating to others, overall effects on diversity/health of the ecosystem. It doesn't matter that RH contributed a lot to Linux if in doing so they trump everyone else in different ways, fail to acknowledge *ANY*, I'm not telling *ALL* criticism, but *ANY*???? Dude! There's an awful lot of it, by an awful lot of people from every camp man! This is not hard-headed anymore, you eventually have to conclude there's something else involved in this deafness.

Now, maybe I'm a little old now, but "oh my, just what can be that something else?". Is it love and altruistic feelings about pushing forward Linux? yeah? The more I see year after year, the more I live with Linux I eventually understand this is not like the beginnings anymore, now there are huge amounts of powers and money invested both in try to take off this ecosystem at any price, or otherwise control it, at any cost (ie, "push it forward" and "make it win").

Guess "who" among the all time players are involved with this? I'll make you a list, so you can choose yourself:

Red Hat

But nah, don't let tinfoil hats and negativism affect your perception, everything is better with fewer players in control. Btw, regarding the udev fork, here are some oppinions that it sparked around:

Actually what is sad is seeing this guy in particular expressing himself in that way.

Finally, "control" is not moot because of forking because A) it's enough effort that even the kernel team doubted about the task of this fork even when some devs where very very vocal about it. B) You can, as it's painfully evident, try and game this system by other means, provided you have the economical/political influence.

Things are out of balance, what really baffles *me* is not only you fail to see this, you actually think these are all good things. I think that corporate Linux and commercial desktop Linux is really fine, just let everyone else live in peace, if not (ideally) relate in good manners to others, and to the actual benefit of everyone including those with different views.