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Thread: GNOME 3.x Will Bring Back Some GNOME 2 Features

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by scionicspectre View Post
    Assuming that you're actually asking this question, you can maximize a window more easily by dragging it to the window edge you would like it to fill (top to fill the whole screen), or if your screen is especially large, just double-click on any portion of the titlebar. This is clearly much easier than aiming for a square button on the edge of a window, but perhaps not as discoverable as some would like.
    I'm not sure when Linux DEs started doing this, but it's one of the behaviours I most hate and have to turn off every time I start using a new one. I'm sick of moving windows around and having them suddenly go full-screen because I accidentally moved into some invisible random magic rectangle.

    Overloading 'move' to sometimes mean 'resize' is crazy when it's otherwise as simple as clicking a button on the window, and it's completely baffling to a user who has no idea of what they've done: 'I was moving it and suddenly it went all big and won't move any more. WTF?'. Then again, so is the entire 'invisible magic rectangle' paradigm of UI design.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3coma3 View Post
    I repeat to you, seeing as you seem so interested in answers: go read, read a lot of facts you don't take into account. This isn't about ugly software. This is about (just an example) making systemd a requirement for GNOME, and making systemd a requirement for udev. These systems are *all* made by the same people. Forcing downstream distros to use your software isn't exactly healthy competition, and these and many other tactics employed by these people show that new elements have to be taken into account to see the whole picture. Make a list of what company all these developers are employees, and then you really will to make your effort to continue to see that everything is peachy.
    This is the first time I have heard someone use Red Hat's FOSS contributions against them, and it makes for an interesting if somewhat tedious argument. It might have some value if Red Hat were directly making money from Gnome, or SystemD, and the myriad of other projects they are involved with, but they are not (at least not directly, they are of course profiting handily from a healthy Linux ecosystem) so your argument for control seems somewhat baffling. What I see is Red Hat trying to make an effort to push Linux forward, and that sometimes involves the cooperation of different parts. Red Hat's position behind all of these parts can be easily explained by realizing just how much of Linux Red Hat has contributed in the first place. I am not going to scald them for it, especially since the control element is mooted in a free software ecosystem anyway (as in gentoo forked udev, for instance).

    Quote Originally Posted by 3coma3 View Post
    So now people who you disagree with are trolls and have to disappear or be hunted. It's so nice to see these displays of common sense.
    You might actually have a point here - Fenrin may have needed some time to cool off before posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatopsis View Post
    You lie about being a programmer and how well GNOME 3 supports the workflow of a programmer in response to a software engineers complaints on GNOME 3's workflow. You get caught in the lie and try to dodge the bullet with this crap. Is this is best you can do?
    Sure, if he disagrees with you he is a liar. Sure.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    Sure, if he disagrees with you he is a liar. Sure.
    No. If he claims to be something he's not he's a liar.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3coma3 View Post
    So now people who you disagree with are trolls and have to disappear or be hunted. It's so nice to see these displays of common sense.
    My previous last sentence about better weapons for the gnomes to hunt trolls was meant as joke. I thought this was more obvious.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatopsis View Post
    No. If he claims to be something he's not he's a liar.
    But you have nothing to base that on other than the fact he uses Gnome Shell. I am sorry, that does not make him not a programmer.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by movieman View Post
    I just switched to XFCE, with the intention of using it for a while until I switched from Ubuntu to Mint. But this version is good enough that I don't know if I'll ever want to go back to Gnome. I keep trying KDE, but I never found a good reason to stick with it.
    That's okay, KDE is not for everyone.

    XFCE is a seriously good alternative to GNOME because it seems have gotten pretty close to Gnome 2 functionality whilst having some perks of it's own. And you have to admire the way they've stuck to their tradtional ways rather go with this tablet-like, locked-down, vendor "branding" and marketing trend. To me that whole thing is a fad, helped by the Fruit Company and their shiny products.

    I foresee the typical desktop will not disappear anytime soon and may even make a comeback once people get sick of getting cramps using touchscreens for serious work.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatopsis View Post
    You lie about being a programmer and how well GNOME 3 supports the workflow of a programmer in response to a software engineers complaints on GNOME 3's workflow. You get caught in the lie and try to dodge the bullet with this crap. Is this is best you can do?
    Well, if you, random stranger on the Internet says so, then it must be true.
    Real programmers obviously use desktop environments that improve their productivity so much that they have lots of time to be rude to people on the Internet.
    In that case, I think I much prefer being some kind of "fake" developer. Seems better for my blood pressure

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by movieman View Post
    Overloading 'move' to sometimes mean 'resize' is crazy when it's otherwise as simple as clicking a button on the window, and it's completely baffling to a user who has no idea of what they've done: 'I was moving it and suddenly it went all big and won't move any more. WTF?'. Then again, so is the entire 'invisible magic rectangle' paradigm of UI design.
    Except that you get a quite visible overlay that shows you what is going to happen. I would guess most people will make the connection pretty fast.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    This is the first time I have heard someone use Red Hat's FOSS contributions against them, and it makes for an interesting if somewhat tedious argument. It might have some value if Red Hat were directly making money from Gnome, or SystemD, and the myriad of other projects they are involved with, but they are not (at least not directly, they are of course profiting handily from a healthy Linux ecosystem) so your argument for control seems somewhat baffling. What I see is Red Hat trying to make an effort to push Linux forward, and that sometimes involves the cooperation of different parts. Red Hat's position behind all of these parts can be easily explained by realizing just how much of Linux Red Hat has contributed in the first place. I am not going to scald them for it, especially since the control element is mooted in a free software ecosystem anyway (as in gentoo forked udev, for instance).
    Whenever I hear a RH supporter answer to stances like I've exposed (this is, if one can get through succesive dismissal, attack and condescendy) it will be like this: baffled, almost astonished, like the picture is so weird it has to come from another galaxy. No wonder you find it tedious to discuss it. I assure you the tedious is nothing compared with having to deal with this "pushing forward of Linux". In any case, I correlate your argument with this other: "Microsoft/Apple have contributed a lot to pushing forward computing and the industry, how can you critisize them? This is using their contributions against them." It's misleading. Why the need to mislead, to focus on some "unexplained hatred" completely undeserved, and (also) from unqualified people, like just users?

    I'll try again to refocus the issue here: not on the quality/quantity of systems contributed by a company, but on the other aspects that taken into account, drastically affect the very nature of the first two aspects, indeed picturing them into something now not so positive as one would like: like interests and motivations, ideologies, "ways" of doing stuff and relating to others, overall effects on diversity/health of the ecosystem. It doesn't matter that RH contributed a lot to Linux if in doing so they trump everyone else in different ways, fail to acknowledge *ANY*, I'm not telling *ALL* criticism, but *ANY*???? Dude! There's an awful lot of it, by an awful lot of people from every camp man! This is not hard-headed anymore, you eventually have to conclude there's something else involved in this deafness.

    Now, maybe I'm a little old now, but "oh my, just what can be that something else?". Is it love and altruistic feelings about pushing forward Linux? yeah? The more I see year after year, the more I live with Linux I eventually understand this is not like the beginnings anymore, now there are huge amounts of powers and money invested both in try to take off this ecosystem at any price, or otherwise control it, at any cost (ie, "push it forward" and "make it win").

    Guess "who" among the all time players are involved with this? I'll make you a list, so you can choose yourself:

    Slackware
    Debian
    Gentoo
    Red Hat
    Suse
    Canonical

    But nah, don't let tinfoil hats and negativism affect your perception, everything is better with fewer players in control. Btw, regarding the udev fork, here are some oppinions that it sparked around:

    https://plus.google.com/111049168280...ts/R387kQb1zxc
    Actually what is sad is seeing this guy in particular expressing himself in that way.

    Finally, "control" is not moot because of forking because A) it's enough effort that even the kernel team doubted about the task of this fork even when some devs where very very vocal about it. B) You can, as it's painfully evident, try and game this system by other means, provided you have the economical/political influence.

    Things are out of balance, what really baffles *me* is not only you fail to see this, you actually think these are all good things. I think that corporate Linux and commercial desktop Linux is really fine, just let everyone else live in peace, if not (ideally) relate in good manners to others, and to the actual benefit of everyone including those with different views.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3coma3 View Post
    It's nice to ask for participation in your project, and at the same time rejecting 90% of that participation. Clearly a good way to promote your project and get people involved and not alienating anyone. Again, you try to take my right to say all this my calling me selfish, so congrats for the passive-agressive attempt at censorship. Sadly it will stay an attempt, as much as you don't like to hear disagreement and complaint.
    Source please? If you based it from Phoronix, that statistics is invalid. The alienation are coming from sone people who spent their time whining like a headless chicken.
    Among rights, there are duty and responsibility to consider. Censorship is necessary when a bunch of individual abused their rights.

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