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Thread: Richard Stallman Calls Ubuntu "Spyware"

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallidus View Post
    I'm not an ubuntu user but I have been using ubuntu a1 13.04 since it came out...
    If you are using Ubuntu, in what sense are you not a Ubuntu user? You really seem to use strange definitions for ordinary words.

    And nothing else you said changed the fact that it is spyware, by the ordinary, standard definition of the word (although perhaps not by your extra special unique personal definition). Some people don't like spyware. It has been like that since it was invented. If you can't accept that, perhaps you should get off the internet.

  2. #62
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    so... let me see, by that definition I am:

    a knoppix user, an archbang user, an elementary luna user, an opensuse user, a bodhi user... shall I go on?


    Installing something and using it more than a few times in live sessions = being an user



    it is NOT SPYWARE IT IS ADWARE.... IT DOESNT LOG YOUR KEYSTROKES IT DOESNT STEAL YOUR INFO

    TO ANYONE COMING FROM WINDOWS OR OS X THE WORD 'SPYWARE' HAS A MUCH DARKER AND TWISTED CONNOTATION CAN YOU FUCKING GET THAT TRU YOUR CUNTY LITTLE HEAD???????




    this is what suprises me about fucking linux.... I swear from the first moment I used it I was like "shit, are you serious? a system this good and I never heard about it and it's free?? gimp, vlc, libre, chromium wtf??? why aren't more people using it"

    and then you fucking SEE WHY

    IT IS BECAUSE THE LINUX COMMUNITY IS FILLED WITH NECKBEARDED CUNTS that don't know shit about interfaces or design or ease of use

    they get 3 inch erections when they hear that fat fuck from valve but they don't care about REVOLUTIONARY shit like elementary os or setting standards.


    best case scenario that african guy says "fuck all you cunts, ubuntu is over, fuck me in the ass if you think I'm spending anymore money on this shit"

    WTF HAVE YOU ACCOMPLISHED??


    SINCE I AM NOW USING LINUX I RECOGNIZE THAT REDHATS/CANONICAL/NOVELL/FUCKWHATEVER SUCESS IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR ME AS IT WILL TRICKLE DOWN


    SO PRAY TELL YOU CUNTS WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF DAMAGING A DISTRO REP TO THE POINT OF NOBODY WANTING TO TOUCH IT ????

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallidus View Post

    *snip*
    Dude, you're losing it. Step away from that keyboard and calm down: you're not going to get your point across this way.

    If there's one thing I learnt as a primary Windows user (my computing time is now split to approximately 70% on Windows (hey, i NEED the extra functions and features MS Office, SQL Server and Visual Studio offer) and 30% Fedora), it is that wishing for the death of any corporation, business, or software is the worst thing anyone can do. And it's good to see that you understand this as well. As Mark Twain famously declared "the reports of my death are greatly exaggerated", it's downright impossible to predict when a distro / OS / company will go under based on a bunch of so-called "symptoms" as perceived by the public.

    Most people don't seem to understand that the loss of Ubuntu will have a cascading effect much greater than what they are predicting. I can't provide hard links, but off the top of my head at least half of all available distros available to day are Debian-derived, with Ubuntu-based distros taking the lion's share of that half. If Ubuntu really goes under you can really kiss those Ubuntu-based distros goodbye because they will no longer have any direction for further advancement considering how dependant they are on the survival of Ubuntu. And switching to Debian is really not an option for many who cannot stand having to deal with stale and outdated software packages in the Stable branch.

    In the same vein, pundits predicting or even outright calling for the death of Apple and Microsoft simply have no idea about the consequences of such situations. If Apple goes under, the creative industry is going to take a huge hit considering how deeply entrenched Apple is in this particular sector. It does not matter if Adobe Creative Suite is available in both OS X and Windows versions: those graphics artists, designers and what-else-have-you have grown accustomed to their personal workflow in OS X and telling them to take their work over to Windows is as good as breaking their hands and forcing them to draw a picture after that.

    The loss of Windows and Microsoft, should it ever happen, is not something anyone should ever entertain, simply because the entire global enterprise structure will grind to a screeching halt. Linux may rule the day where web servers are concerned (word as it that Apache's httpd holds a massive 80% of that market), but where internal, non-web servers are concerned it's a two-horse race between Windows Server (approx 45%) and Linux (approx 55%). Lastly, even though Microsoft is greatly weakened today, it still commands no less than 70% of the desktop OS market. The fallout of a Microsoft collapse is just unthinkable, to say the least. Linux MIGHT be able to fill the void in the event of such an outcome, but it will take at least an entire decade (or even three) to get the world properly migrated off, and even then the damage to the world's economy has already been done, and no one can gurantee that things will continue to work the same way as before. That OS X users can actually understand this says a lot about the status quo: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1481060

    But you're not going to drive this message home by resorting to name calling and typing in caps.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by energyman View Post
    of course I have proof. Just look at their page of non-recommended distributions. If a distribution makes it possible to install non-free software it is not recommended. Just because it is possible. Gentoo makes it possible to filter licenses. So you can install only 'free' software. If you want. It also makes it possible to install non-free software. User choice, you know?
    And FSF hates them for that.

    Idiotic.
    Why do you think the FREE SOFTWARE FOUNDATION would recommend a distro that has non-free software in their own repositories or on install? That kind of misses the point of what the foundation themselves set out to do

    Quote Originally Posted by energyman View Post
    You sir are either a troll or completely brainwashed.

    The FSF corrupted the terms 'free' and 'freedom'. And you fell for it. I am sorry for that but there might be help.

    I want to be free to do with MY computer what I WANT. That includes software that is 'evil' by FSF's agenda.
    In their perfect world, it would be impossible to do so. So they want to take away MY FREEDOM. I am sorry, but this people are like those 'revolutionaries' who behead everybody who critizeses them to 'protect free speech'.
    No, they haven't

    You have no proof to back that up, and are claiming the FSF would take away your freedom to install non-free software if they had the chance. I tried trisquel once and had no problem enabling a third party repo with non-free software and installing my drivers (though it was completely missing the point.)

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    How, exactly, does it not fit the dictionary definition of spyware?

    Here it is again, in case you missed it the first time:

    spy·ware
    [spahy-wair]
    noun, Computers.
    software, installed unknowingly, that gathers information about an Internet user's browsing habits or intercepts personal data, transmitting this information to a third party for commercial gain.


    What part of this does Ubuntu not match?

    "software" Ubuntu is unquestionably software

    "installed unknowingly" the spyware software incorporated into the distribution is installed without informing or asking the user. Like most apps bundled with spyware, this is only mentioned in the fine print of an agreement nobody reads. If Ubuntu isn't spyware because of this, then there is no such thing as spyware.

    "that gathers information about an Internet user's browsing habits or intercepts personal data" I have a hard time imaging a situation where search terms used on a local machine are not "personal data"

    "transmitting this information" information is transmitted over the internet

    "to a third party" this is transmitted to Canonical, which is a third party compared to the user (again, if you use this part of the definition to invalidate the definition, then there is no such thing as spyware)

    "for commercial gain" it is explicitly for commercial gain.

    So it fits word-for-word the dictionary definition. This isn't really a matter of much disagreement, I have not seen anyone come up with an argument for why it isn't spyware that doesn't also work for a large amount of commonly-accepted spyware programs.
    Since that any web browser, Windows, Apple OSs, XBOX, PS3, Android, Steam, and including Phoronix phorums..., etc gathers user information about his preferences and habits, who cares about the definition of spyware? One thing is that a system take usage data information, and another very different thing is to steal data, and Ubuntu is not stealing data. And I insist. Acussing without any prove doesn't have any validity.

    In my opinion this is a witch hunting against Canonycal. Ubuntu stealing user data is a very serious accusation. Ubuntu is gathering usage information like Google, Microsoft, Apple, Valve, Mozilla, Dropbox, American Express, the US Government, AT&T, the ONU and any other organization. If you seriously think that Stallman is right, please, don't use your self phone, your credit card, don't use the Internet, unplug your computer and go to the most remote place in Earth.

    Seriously, I don't understand Stallman, I think he claimed for good several years ago, but now I think he is becoming mad. He says he claims for freedom, which I think it's something very good, but I think that any claim should be made in a responsible way.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by peperoni View Post
    Since that any web browser, Windows, Apple OSs, XBOX, PS3, Android, Steam, and including Phoronix phorums..., etc gathers user information about his preferences and habits, who cares about the definition of spyware? One thing is that a system take usage data information, and another very different thing is to steal data, and Ubuntu is not stealing data. And I insist. Acussing without any prove doesn't have any validity.
    Spyware has nothing to do with 'stealing data', it's transmitting data that was meant to query the local computer/network behind the user's back and most people normal people wouldn't have a clue. Google Chrome has a similar problem with search suggestions, sending any keystrok you make in what would normally be the address bar back to Google. You only knew about this because people have been whining about it for months.

    Quote Originally Posted by peperoni View Post
    In my opinion this is a witch hunting against Canonycal. Ubuntu stealing user data is a very serious accusation. Ubuntu is gathering usage information like Google, Microsoft, Apple, Valve, Mozilla, Dropbox, American Express, the US Government, AT&T, the ONU and any other organization. If you seriously think that Stallman is right, please, don't use your self phone, your credit card, don't use the Internet, unplug your computer and go to the most remote place in Earth.
    What's funny is Microsoft is probably more respecting of privacy with their new remote search handler or whatever they call it in Metro on a per app basis.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudolph_steinberg View Post
    I guess Microsoft's PR trolling campaign is in full swing, because I have a hard time believing that a Linux forum could be so full of people with utter disregard for the principles of open source if they aren't being paid by Microsoft. A little of Steve "Epic Fail" Ballmer's "Beating Linux at it's own game", using the tried and true Microsoft playbook of unethical and illegal business practices.
    The fact is that as Linux become more and more commercial more people that don't care about open source principles will use Linux.
    And you can forget to convince the 99.9% of the people in the world. If you want, of course.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallidus View Post
    so... let me see, by that definition I am:

    a knoppix user, an archbang user, an elementary luna user, an opensuse user, a bodhi user... shall I go on?


    Installing something and using it more than a few times in live sessions = being an user



    it is NOT SPYWARE IT IS ADWARE.... IT DOESNT LOG YOUR KEYSTROKES IT DOESNT STEAL YOUR INFO

    TO ANYONE COMING FROM WINDOWS OR OS X THE WORD 'SPYWARE' HAS A MUCH DARKER AND TWISTED CONNOTATION CAN YOU FUCKING GET THAT TRU YOUR CUNTY LITTLE HEAD???????




    this is what suprises me about fucking linux.... I swear from the first moment I used it I was like "shit, are you serious? a system this good and I never heard about it and it's free?? gimp, vlc, libre, chromium wtf??? why aren't more people using it"

    and then you fucking SEE WHY

    IT IS BECAUSE THE LINUX COMMUNITY IS FILLED WITH NECKBEARDED CUNTS that don't know shit about interfaces or design or ease of use

    they get 3 inch erections when they hear that fat fuck from valve but they don't care about REVOLUTIONARY shit like elementary os or setting standards.


    best case scenario that african guy says "fuck all you cunts, ubuntu is over, fuck me in the ass if you think I'm spending anymore money on this shit"

    WTF HAVE YOU ACCOMPLISHED??


    SINCE I AM NOW USING LINUX I RECOGNIZE THAT REDHATS/CANONICAL/NOVELL/FUCKWHATEVER SUCESS IS GOING TO BE GOOD FOR ME AS IT WILL TRICKLE DOWN


    SO PRAY TELL YOU CUNTS WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF DAMAGING A DISTRO REP TO THE POINT OF NOBODY WANTING TO TOUCH IT ????
    Absolutely!

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    In the same vein, pundits predicting or even outright calling for the death of Apple and Microsoft simply have no idea about the consequences of such situations. If Apple goes under, the creative industry is going to take a huge hit considering how deeply entrenched Apple is in this particular sector. It does not matter if Adobe Creative Suite is available in both OS X and Windows versions: those graphics artists, designers and what-else-have-you have grown accustomed to their personal workflow in OS X and telling them to take their work over to Windows is as good as breaking their hands and forcing them to draw a picture after that.
    Well, to use an analogy from my field of studies, Ecology - empty niches do exist, but if a species goes extinct and leaves a large, fertile niche, it will not take long for other species to take its place. So while it is true that if Apple or Microsoft went bankrupt, a void would be created, it would not stay for long and others would take their place. If we're lucky, it would be several competing companies. That would lead to healthy competition, which would, in the long run, increase creativity and user benefits.

  10. #70
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    Come on guys, let's be fair. Stallman and by extension the FSF may seem pretty extreme and we may disagree with them on a number of things, but they provide that balance in this increasingly locked down proprietery world where $$$ seems to rule everything. If not for the likes of Stallman etc, we would be in a closed computing nightmare already.

    So whilst extreme, he's entitled to his views and we should respect that.


    On the subject though, whilst I wouldn't go around shunning Ubuntu itself, I would make people aware of this "feature" and how to turn it off if they desire.

    At THE VERY LEAST, my opinion is it should be opt-in or ask the user at first-boot whether they would like the feature enabled and explain what it does. That's true freedom and transparency.

    Leaving it the way it is and hoping more unknowing users will just use it and not be aware what's going on in order to make a few bucks is really not cool in my opinion.

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