What Linux Users Are Saying About GNOME In 2012 (Part 1)

[ninez]

It's time to forget the old gnome... it will never come back.

not entirely true. Yes, Gnome2 is essentially dead (unless you are one of those mate users). But much of it's functionality has been implemented in Cinnamon, so the gnome2 paradigm, largely has lived on.

When the old functionnal paradigm of gnome2 was replaced with something more experimental they have forgotten to let a note on the window : " We're closed for renovation, please come back in several years. "

They did that already - gnome 3 was in development for several years _before_ being *officially released* ... Once it was released, the expectation / intention wasn't that it was in an experimental state, but actually was going to become the default desktop for most distro's that shipped Gnome2 ~ but obviously that didn't really work out for the Gnome-devs, since their Shell was forked, Ubuntu didn't want to use it and created Unity, etc.

We are now at Gnome 3.6 (which is NOT an 'experimental release', but instead is a 'stable release). I'm not sure where you get the idea that Gnome is an experimental DE (?) - many people have been using it for quite some time and on some distro's it is the default DE.

[rafirafi]

not entirely true. Yes, Gnome2 is essentially dead (unless you are one of those mate users). But much of it's functionality has been implemented in Cinnamon, so the gnome2 paradigm, largely has lived on.



They did that already - gnome 3 was in development for several years _before_ being *officially released* ... Once it was released, the expectation / intention wasn't that it was in an experimental state, but actually was going to become the default desktop for most distro's that shipped Gnome2 ~ but obviously that didn't really work out for the Gnome-devs, since their Shell was forked, Ubuntu didn't want to use it and created Unity, etc.

We are now at Gnome 3.6 (which is NOT an 'experimental release', but instead is a 'stable release). I'm not sure where you get the idea that Gnome is an experimental DE (?) - many people have been using it for quite some time and on some distro's it is the default DE.

I've use cinnamon for month till I switch to gnome-shell (again)
then xfce in September. I was always using the lattest version, after 3-5 days cinnamon was just killing itself as the memory leak was encountering 2G...
So I can speak of my last experience of gnome shell.
The install was ok and everything that was available was working correctly, but there was this effect when you open/switch windows which was really annoying. So I though : we're going to change that.
When you use windows, osx, other linux DE it's something you can do. With gnome-shell you can do it but you've to edit system file manually... so I just let it go.
Then there was these shinny extensions on the gnome site, I though perhaps this could help me with the transition. I tried 3, one was doing nothing(I suppose it was broke), one was uggly and one completely broke the default settings.
So it was only three months ago I don't know for you but this is not my definition of stable.

And even gnome-shell team have understood it was a little too much, they always said they were not going to maintain an outdated and gnome-shell breaking experience thing : the legacy/classic mode.
They have perfectly good justifications : moving forward, putting energy in improving their new DE, taking care of their vision first even if it was obviously meaning a massive users leakage. But when you believe in what you do you don't care the critics and they seemed pretty confident at this time.
Do you remember when extensions were introduced ? they clearly said it was not done to reintroduce gnome2 features. Do you remember when legacy mode was introduced ? they clearly said it was not something they were going to maintain but more something quickly hacked in case of hardware problems.
So if gnome-shell is something stable and usable why do they care about reintroducing legacy functionnalities now?

And don't told me they just listen their users, I remember reading on their mailing list that they can't listen because the only users speaking are thoses which are not happy and it's not something relevant.

For the rest I'm ok whith what you said, and again it's just my view. Perhaps if you are somebody who just want something working and who never change settings and don't use your computer a lot gnome-shell is perfect, but I'm inclined to thing this kind of people buy apple laptop instead (like the people you can see at every gnome conference). Oups...

[ninez]

I've use cinnamon for month till I switch to gnome-shell (again)
then xfce in September. I was always using the lattest version, after 3-5 days cinnamon was just killing itself as the memory leak was encountering 2G...

I build Cinnamon from git and i haven't encountered a huge memory leak....possibly fixed then?

So I can speak of my last experience of gnome shell.
The install was ok and everything that was available was working correctly, but there was this effect when you open/switch windows which was really annoying. So I though : we're going to change that.
When you use windows, osx, other linux DE it's something you can do. With gnome-shell you can do it but you've to edit system file manually... so I just let it go.
Then there was these shinny extensions on the gnome site, I though perhaps this could help me with the transition. I tried 3, one was doing nothing(I suppose it was broke), one was uggly and one completely broke the default settings.
So it was only three months ago I don't know for you but this is not my definition of stable.

we share the same definition of 'stable'. my point was that in fact, Gnome 3.6 _is_ considered a 'stable' release, whether it is or not (is another story). i experienced similar problems ~ but i also had to install a lot of extensions to get what i wanted, so i chalked it up to being that people writing extensions were writing crappy extensions.

And even gnome-shell team have understood it was a little too much, they always said they were not going to maintain an outdated and gnome-shell breaking experience thing : the legacy/classic mode.
They have perfectly good justifications : moving forward, putting energy in improving their new DE, taking care of their vision first even if it was obviously meaning a massive users leakage. But when you believe in what you do you don't care the critics and they seemed pretty confident at this time.
Do you remember when extensions were introduced ? they clearly said it was not done to reintroduce gnome2 features. Do you remember when legacy mode was introduced ? they clearly said it was not something they were going to maintain but more something quickly hacked in case of hardware problems.
So if gnome-shell is something stable and usable why do they care about reintroducing legacy functionnalities now?

Well, in some regard you _could_ view that as poor project management / poor organizational skills, not having foresight, not being particularly good at certain areas of design with practical application in mind, not actually having a specific 'vision' that also considers practical application, shitty QA, etc.... which i think it is probably a combination of all of those. But generally speaking, DEs tend to get/add new features, deprecate old ones, etc... and all of them have bugs.

And don't told me they just listen their users, I remember reading on their mailing list that they can't listen because the only users speaking are thoses which are not happy and it's not something relevant.

why would i want to tell you that, exactly?? I know they don't listen to their userbase. after all, i don't use GS and there is good reason why it was forked (and unity being created).

For the rest I'm ok whith what you said, and again it's just my view. Perhaps if you are somebody who just want something working and who never change settings and don't use your computer a lot gnome-shell is perfect, but I'm inclined to thing this kind of people buy apple laptop instead (like the people you can see at every gnome conference). Oups...

I don't think i could even agree gnome-shell would be perfect in that case - but i suppose it would entirely be dependent on the individual. Generally speaking, i wouldn't recommend linux to any of my friends, unless they are tech-savvy to some degree or they want to tinker and learn. For my friends whom 'just want something to work, that is reliable' and they have money - Apple every time. ~ so i tend to agree, those people will tend to buy apple products....and the fact is, GS, KDE, etc aren't going to protect the user from the platform's shortcomings (ie: Gnu/linux having compatibility issues, driver issues, lack of certain types of software, etc).

[kigurai]

Then be happy, but most of the Linux users don't like it.

Most users on Phoronix. There, I fixed it for you.

All the real flesh and blood people that I have met have no troubles doing their work in G3.
And before the assumptions and insults start, they are people with highly technical jobs.

[rafirafi]

I don't think i could even agree gnome-shell would be perfect in that case - but i suppose it would entirely be dependent on the individual. Generally speaking, i wouldn't recommend linux to any of my friends, unless they are tech-savvy to some degree or they want to tinker and learn. For my friends whom 'just want something to work, that is reliable' and they have money - Apple every time. ~ so i tend to agree, those people will tend to buy apple products....and the fact is, GS, KDE, etc aren't going to protect the user from the platform's shortcomings (ie: Gnu/linux having compatibility issues, driver issues, lack of certain types of software, etc).

Today it's possible to have a perfectly supported PC/laptop if you use latest intel sandy/ivy bridge gpu. If you choose a stable distro, put all updates in automatic mode, install xfce which is similar to what "people" expect from a computer it's not so hard to use. Sure there is not the same manpower or coherence for linux, and the software offer is not the same than for windows but it's not so bad.

For the cinnamon memory leaking... I used the recommanded ppa, at one release they announced a big memory leak was fixed but it was not for me. The only other issue was when using qemu fullscreen, the resolution was sometimes broken after but I don't know perhaps it was qemu not the mutter fork. Frankly I don't have the courage to compile to test, I switch to the infamous xfce/kwin couple which is rock solid/beautiful.

[Taecilla]

Then be happy, but most of the Linux users don't like it.

Then move on and choose another Desktop Environment.

[Pawlerson]

They do it all the time because they know they're good, and they know the whiners are mouth-breathing morons.

Reality has proven some of the gnome devs are morons.

If you don't like Gnome 3, you're most likely doing something stupid. Instead of getting frustrated, try thinking about the best way to accomplish your task. You'll find that the way you used to do things in Windows and Gnome 2 were not that efficient after all.

Or perhaps, gnome 3 is utterly stupid? The best thing I can do is to keep away from this crap as far as possible. The best way to complete my task is to use sane desktop environments like KDE.

[Pawlerson]

Most users on Phoronix. There, I fixed it for you.

Not true. Probably every poll shows KDE and Unity are more popular than gnome 3. I bet Cinnamon is more popular as well.

[ворот93]

If you don't like Gnome 3, you're most likely doing something stupid. Instead of getting frustrated, try thinking about the best way to accomplish your task. You'll find that the way you used to do things in Windows and Gnome 2 were not that efficient after all.

...and GNOME 3 is not efficient at all. Its organization of interface is plain stupid.

[ninez]

Today it's possible to have a perfectly supported PC/laptop if you use latest intel sandy/ivy bridge gpu. If you choose a stable distro, put all updates in automatic mode, install xfce which is similar to what "people" expect from a computer it's not so hard to use. Sure there is not the same manpower or coherence for linux, and the software offer is not the same than for windows but it's not so bad.

your not looking at the broader problems (as far as h/w support), but instead only looking at gpu support (what about countless other h/W devices?). As one small example - with proaudio interfaces, you better know EXACTLY what you are buying, how well-supported the card is (and is it flaky, which some tend to be under linux). How about various quirks (that sometimes require intervention/config) for certain intelHDA devices? how about certain MBs that don't work well? (ie: things like crappy/flaky inplementation of usb / firewire / etc)... But on the topic of GPUs - i don't like Intel's gpus, and they wouldn't be something i would recommend to anyone i know. they are okay, but nothing special... ~ mind you i am biased because i use GPU intensive apps.. (but then again, so does everyone else i know).

For the cinnamon memory leaking... I used the recommanded ppa, at one release they announced a big memory leak was fixed but it was not for me. The only other issue was when using qemu fullscreen, the resolution was sometimes broken after but I don't know perhaps it was qemu not the mutter fork. Frankly I don't have the courage to compile to test, I switch to the infamous xfce/kwin couple which is rock solid/beautiful.

i don't know about the QEMU/fullscreen bit, nor about the 'recommended ppa' ~ since i don't use Ubuntu. But i know running cinnamon-git in Archlinux doesn't seem to have a big-ugly memory leak. It's too bad that you ran into problems - i wouldn't have used cinnamon (even 6 months ago) but i have been really enjoying the experience, since i switched a month (or so) ago..

xfce/kwin eh? ...sounds like it could be an interesting combo (I've never tried it).

cheerz