Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19

Thread: Tux3 Comes Back To Life, Brings Competition To EXT4

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    14,894

    Default Tux3 Comes Back To Life, Brings Competition To EXT4

    Phoronix: Tux3 Comes Back To Life, Brings Competition To EXT4

    It's been a few years since last having anything to talk about with regard to the Tux3 file-system, but with the new year comes news on Tux3. This file-system has advanced and is more competitive now with EXT4...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTI2NjE

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Creve Coeur, Missouri
    Posts
    399

    Default

    Remember how fast EXT4 was before it was actually safe to use? Anyway, I'd like to see if it is actually workable before it gets rolled into several major distributions and it is found out that it looses data whenever you improperly shut down.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Tux3 is a versioning file-system
    explanation please. Are we speaking of something like Windows 7 file recovery? Or build-in SVN style (which would be kind of weird)?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Detructor View Post
    explanation please. Are we speaking of something like Windows 7 file recovery? Or build-in SVN style (which would be kind of weird)?
    Versioning as in snapshotting, like Windows "previous versions" except way nicer and more efficient, and built into the filesystem instead of the virtual block device. Multiple read/write snapshots and snapshots of snapshots. The performance sweet spot is targetted at a few tens of simultaneous snapshots, with a planned limit of 512 simultaneous snapshots, though we might increase that to 32K. Basic algorithms for this are designed, prototyped and stress tested, but not added to Tux3 yet.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    92

    Default

    I like very much the potentiality of this project so i wish that reach quickly a good stage of development so that it can be seriously considered even as an alternative to ext4 (thanks eg. to snapshots).
    Since will more light respect Btrfs but with similar enterprise functionalities.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danielbot View Post
    Versioning as in snapshotting, like Windows "previous versions" except way nicer and more efficient, and built into the filesystem instead of the virtual block device. Multiple read/write snapshots and snapshots of snapshots. The performance sweet spot is targetted at a few tens of simultaneous snapshots, with a planned limit of 512 simultaneous snapshots, though we might increase that to 32K. Basic algorithms for this are designed, prototyped and stress tested, but not added to Tux3 yet.
    WANT! Even if it was much slower than ext4, I'd still take it.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danielbot View Post
    Versioning as in snapshotting, like Windows "previous versions" except way nicer and more efficient, and built into the filesystem instead of the virtual block device. Multiple read/write snapshots and snapshots of snapshots. The performance sweet spot is targetted at a few tens of simultaneous snapshots, with a planned limit of 512 simultaneous snapshots, though we might increase that to 32K. Basic algorithms for this are designed, prototyped and stress tested, but not added to Tux3 yet.
    I assume Danielbot - that you are involved with Tux3?

    if so, i have some questions - i may try Tux3 for one of the systems i am building...

    Tux3 not being screwed by the stable pages write stuff is good. I am wondering;

    - has Tux3 been extensively tested/used in Linux RT environments, at all?
    - How well does it behave in an RT environment, running Windows Applications?
    - how much access do you have to adjust/tweak/experiment via sysctl, etc?

    if you can answer any of these questions and/or point me to the docs that you think might be of interest to me, that would be great. I know that there are supposed to be some improvements regarding the stable page write stuff in EXT4 (that is supposed to solve these issues, afaik) that is coming down the pipe / being investigated, but for my own systems - i am starting to be interested in exploring other file-systems for more high-performance RT uses, anyway. (might as well cover all bases).

    I have a little project i have started; L_ProAudio

    Tux3 wouldn't help with that directly; being as the vast majority of users will be using EXT4 (since it's installed) . L_Pa-Wine, the new high-performance/properly mapped Windows PRIOs to linux PRIOs/multi-threaded version of Wine. (and my kernel that attempts to integrate better with Wine - and does). but it could be of use for my own H/W, if it yeilds good performance (which it the critical part). Some of your other features have appeal as well.

    thanks

    oh, project page if you are curious https://sourceforge.net/projects/l-proaudio/

    EDIT: your snapshots would also be helpful for my own H/W.

    cheerz
    Last edited by ninez; 01-03-2013 at 03:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    i may try Tux3 for one of the systems i am building...
    Let me be very clear about this: nobody but developers will be seriously using Tux3 for at least two years. You should regard this as pure developer sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    i- has Tux3 been extensively tested/used in Linux RT environments, at all?
    No, Tux3 has not been extensively tested in any environment. Howewever the Tux3 design is realtime-friendly in the sense that it is well suited to adding algorithms that impose small bounded worst case access and update times in relation to some given load.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    i- How well does it behave in an RT environment, running Windows Applications?
    Windows Applications? Ah, wine. Tux3 has the right features and design to serve Wine apps properly, and VM apps for that matter. Though again, it's not ready for that as of today, even experimentally.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    i- how much access do you have to adjust/tweak/experiment via sysctl, etc?
    Complete access. Though we will likely provide a more elegant tweaking interface that sysctl.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    iI know that there are supposed to be some improvements regarding the stable page write stuff in EXT4 (that is supposed to solve these issues, afaik) that is coming down the pipe / being investigated...
    We definitely solved that issue in Tux3, which arguably should be considered "the pipe" for stable pages now.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    I have a little project i have started; L_ProAudio. iTux3 wouldn't help with that directly; being as the vast majority of users will be using EXT4 (since it's installed) . L_Pa-Wine, the new high-performance/properly mapped Windows PRIOs to linux PRIOs/multi-threaded version of Wine. (and my kernel that attempts to integrate better with Wine - and does). but it could be of use for my own H/W, if it yeilds good performance (which it the critical part). Some of your other features have appeal as well... EDIT: your snapshots would also be helpful for my own H/W.
    Again, just to be very clear, no end user will be using Tux3 for data they care about for quite some time yet. Until such time as Tux3 is proved 100% reliable you should think of it as a shiny developer toy.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxID10T View Post
    Remember how fast EXT4 was before it was actually safe to use? Anyway, I'd like to see if it is actually workable before it gets rolled into several major distributions and it is found out that it looses data whenever you improperly shut down.
    It still can be that fast (and mostly safe) if your computer has backup power.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxID10T View Post
    Remember how fast EXT4 was before it was actually safe to use? Anyway, I'd like to see if it is actually workable before it gets rolled into several major distributions and it is found out that it looses data whenever you improperly shut down.
    Slowest thing about EXT4 in the linux kernel is -> stable_write_page ~ it's the reason why Google, Samsung, Mao Bao, Oracle, etc ~ ALL revert that feature on modern kernels for their purposes (think every android device, some google/oracle infrastructure/etc), it has a nasty performance impact on EXT4, especially where high-performance/time-critical operations are desired. You end up with jbd2/sdaX/X spending ridiculous amounts of time on [poll_schedule_timeouts], which KILLS performance for some applications and drags/slows down the whole system. (when using stable_write_page)

    ...anyway, i am guessing you and the vast majority of users never had to worry about the EXT4 bug that you are talking about. It only affected a _very_ small number of people with _specific_ configurations required to trigger that bug. and fyi - you won't see tux3 rolled into many (more likely no) distros as the default file-system (if ever....imho, very unlikely).
    Last edited by ninez; 01-01-2013 at 02:54 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •