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Thread: Nokia is dying (thanks to microsoft)

  1. #111
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    Thanks for the correction - the semiaccurate post on the three archos phones read as if all had quad cores.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by chithanh View Post
    Actually the $99 Archos phone (35 Carbon) is only single core and not that exciting over other $99 Android phones like the Huawei Y201 Pro.

    WP8 devices are now down to $180 (Lumia 520) but they don't compete with Asha at all because the latter sell for $100 or less. WP8 still has a long way to go until it reaches $100, not only because of minimum hardware requirements but also because vendors are locked into a very limited number of mobile SoCs.

    The problem of lagginess is much overstated I think. In that market segment, it is most important whether or not people can afford a smartphone at all. They will happily accept some jerky animations in exchange for browsing the Internet, installing apps, etc.
    In my country the Lumia 520 is more like $280 and the asha is much cheaper, but no big seller since most people want real smartphones.
    Andriod can be found from $45 (Huawei U8180 Ideos X1).
    All prices are contract free.
    Now i know that prices differ a lot in different countries but with Androids that's cheaper than Nokia asha i find it hard to see a bright future for the asha phones.
    As you i too find it hard to believe that poor people that get there first smartphone would care much about some small lag in Android, this is more a problem for people that like to complain about Android.
    I can't see that asha will withstand the cheap android phones, maybe Nokia meltemi would have had a better chance but it was never finished and it's still not clear what it actually was and how feature rich it would be.
    I can't see how WP and asha can save Nokia and regain lost market share, but i can see Nokia survive as a small player in the mobile industry.
    Nokia's downfall makes me sad because Nokia has such knowledge in hardware design, it's hard to argue over the cheaper Lumias hardware for their price.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by curaga View Post
    I have yet to see a non-laggy Android phone, including quad/penta cores. I haven't used 4.1 or newer, though.
    Same here (having used the very latest 4.2.x). I've also never seen ANY phone that didn't have lag, but iphone does have, noticably, the least lag of any mobile system I've used.
    The issue is simply not one of hardware (as the iphone has demonstrated). IMHO, Android really needs to go to the RT kernel. That would let android more closely control prioritization without having to change how the rendering pipeline is handled internally.

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam View Post
    Same here (having used the very latest 4.2.x). I've also never seen ANY phone that didn't have lag, but iphone does have, noticably, the least lag of any mobile system I've used.
    The issue is simply not one of hardware (as the iphone has demonstrated). IMHO, Android really needs to go to the RT kernel. That would let android more closely control prioritization without having to change how the rendering pipeline is handled internally.
    Well it's quite easy to write a scheduler for a predefined set of background processes and a maximum of 1 active foreground tasks ;-)

    With android you can have the same experience, but your phone has to be quite powerful. For example on my Samsung Galaxy Nexus (which is quite powerful) with android 4.2 I have never experienced any noticeable lag. On the other hand there is my HTC Wildfire S which is also running 4.2 but as soon as there is more then one process activley using the cpu there's a noticeable lag.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam View Post
    Same here (having used the very latest 4.2.x). I've also never seen ANY phone that didn't have lag, but iphone does have, noticably, the least lag of any mobile system I've used.
    The issue is simply not one of hardware (as the iphone has demonstrated). IMHO, Android really needs to go to the RT kernel. That would let android more closely control prioritization without having to change how the rendering pipeline is handled internally.
    A realtime kernel to get smooth animation. That sounds as a bad solution long term...

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by droste View Post
    Well it's quite easy to write a scheduler for a predefined set of background processes and a maximum of 1 active foreground tasks ;-)

    With android you can have the same experience, but your phone has to be quite powerful. For example on my Samsung Galaxy Nexus (which is quite powerful) with android 4.2 I have never experienced any noticeable lag. On the other hand there is my HTC Wildfire S which is also running 4.2 but as soon as there is more then one process activley using the cpu there's a noticeable lag.
    How in the world did you get 4.2 on the Wildfire? Root + custom ROM?

    My Wildfire's last upgrade was from v2.1 to v2.2, and that's it; HTC's not even thinking of putting v2.3 on these phones even though 2.3 is more of a bugfix release to v2.2.

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by liam View Post
    Same here (having used the very latest 4.2.x). I've also never seen ANY phone that didn't have lag, but iphone does have, noticably, the least lag of any mobile system I've used.
    My family owns an iPhone 4 and a Galaxy Note 2. And when I compare the animations between all 3 devices, my Lumia 520 with Windows Phone 8 really looks (to me) to have the least lag, and is even more fluid than the iPhone 4 in the interface animation.

    Love the Note 2's huge display though. Too bad it's too big to stuff in my pocket.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    How in the world did you get 4.2 on the Wildfire? Root + custom ROM?
    Yes root + custom rom. But it's a Wildfire ->S<- which was shipped with 2.3.5 and got updated once by HTC to 2.3.7. After no more updates I rooted it and flashed a 4.0 version. Now I'm at 4.2.1 but it's obviously tuned down in features, because the phone is hardly capable of running stuff like google now etc. and it's still running on a 2.6.35 kernel.
    But I still like it, because it's so small :-)
    Last edited by droste; 04-20-2013 at 08:27 PM.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by droste View Post
    Well it's quite easy to write a scheduler for a predefined set of background processes and a maximum of 1 active foreground tasks ;-)

    With android you can have the same experience, but your phone has to be quite powerful. For example on my Samsung Galaxy Nexus (which is quite powerful) with android 4.2 I have never experienced any noticeable lag. On the other hand there is my HTC Wildfire S which is also running 4.2 but as soon as there is more then one process activley using the cpu there's a noticeable lag.
    I think you know that ios isn't that simple (plus, I think, there is an api for background tasks but, I'd imagine, they get evicted at the drop of a hat). OSX gets great latency out of the box (apparently not as good as RT linux, but RT linux is hardly stock).
    Linux probably needs something completely different from CFS, something much more interactive. I know that some changes are either coming (or are in the current rcs) like the bouncing elephant outlier (which I'm surprised even existed since we've had affinity for ages) and the AutoNUMA stuff (hoping "node" will refer to cores as much as sockets).
    I've played around with android enough to know that unless you get something like a 10GHz xeon you aren't going to see improvements in lag once you are running 4.1+ (even my old Nexus S runs with similar to indentical lag as my N4...it's just not a hardware issue, aside from the absurd device I posited). The problems come down to:1)touch events aren't priortized enough, 2)android takes too long to perform certain draws (an intel engineer wrote a whitepaper where he gave some data about this). The first thing can be helped by an RT kernel, the second can as well IF drawing is prioritized thus not interrupted except by another touch event.


    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    A realtime kernel to get smooth animation. That sounds as a bad solution long term...
    Why? The RT guys seem to think they will eventually achieve performance parity with mainline, and in some cases even faster (networking, I think, was the target there). Besides, I don't recall ever seeing the throughput delta of coop and RT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonadow View Post
    My family owns an iPhone 4 and a Galaxy Note 2. And when I compare the animations between all 3 devices, my Lumia 520 with Windows Phone 8 really looks (to me) to have the least lag, and is even more fluid than the iPhone 4 in the interface animation.

    Love the Note 2's huge display though. Too bad it's too big to stuff in my pocket.
    For well used devices, you might be right. I don't own any i or win devices so I am going by using them in stores, and friends/relatives devices.
    In those cases, ios always wins in terms of following my finger. Place your finger over a specific character in the browser, for instance, and see how much it moves when you scroll up and down. First move slowly, but constantly, then later use acceleration in both directions. IOS simply reacts faster than any of the others. Windows and Android are ROUGHLY equivalent, with windows looking to be a bit more responsive in my view.
    BTW, I'm not talking about smoothness, only responsiveness.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Collin View Post
    I don't agree with your statement that Nokia is dying. Nokia still covers huge market to beat its competitors and have great potential to introduce unique stuff and innovative products in current market.
    How much are you getting paid for astroturfing?

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