Nokia is dying (thanks to microsoft)

[erendorn]

Nokia has been recently caught violating user privacy: Nokia cell phones route secure https connections via their own servers and decrypt your data while they're at it. This applies at least to their Asha phones, possibly others as well. Nokia justifies this with "optimization". Other cellphone browsers (eg. Opera mini) do the same but only with non-secure plaintext connections.

Opera mini does the same. Encrypted data cannot be compressed. The only (also, very important) difference is that for Opera mini, it is clearly written in the conditions of use.

[frantaylor]

And who cares? Only idiots stick with one company's products forever. Be smart and choose whatever is best at any given time. Who cares if company X or Y survives? If they don't produce anything anybody wants, what's the point of that
company's existence?

This is a great attitude for people who live in their parent's basement. Back in reality, people have families and jobs and careers and these things are destroyed by careless technocrats with attitudes like yours, who think nothing of disrupting thousands of lives on stupid business decisions.

Yes indeed to people like you, technology is just toys for boys.

What is REALLY SAD is that Nokia has handed the reins of their corporation to a bunch of brain-rotted ex-microsofties who are busy turning Nokia into their version of what they wanted microsoft to be, trashing huge swaths of humanity in the process.

[BO$$]

This is a great attitude for people who live in their parent's basement. Back in reality, people have families and jobs and careers and these things are destroyed by careless technocrats with attitudes like yours, who think nothing of disrupting thousands of lives on stupid business decisions.

Yes indeed to people like you, technology is just toys for boys.

What is REALLY SAD is that Nokia has handed the reins of their corporation to a bunch of brain-rotted ex-microsofties who are busy turning Nokia into their version of what they wanted microsoft to be, trashing huge swaths of humanity in the process.

Remember this is capitalism not communism. Nobody cares that they 'disrupted' their lives. They always have the option to go work for someone else, or, by god I am not allowed to say this, even start their own companies.

[dee.]

Remember this is capitalism not communism. Nobody cares that they 'disrupted' their lives. They always have the option to go work for someone else, or, by god I am not allowed to say this, even start their own companies.

"Go work for someone else" yes, if someone else is hiring, if there are job opportunities. Real life does not work the same way as economy text books.

Furthermore, what about the cost to the country of finland? Nokia used to bring a huge amount of tax income, making the lives of citizens better in many ways. Then along comes elop and destroys nokia (with the accomplicity of the nokia board) and whoops, there goes all that tax income, all those jobs, down the drain. Who takes the responsibility? Someone should. People should be held accountable for their actions, no matter if they're rich or poor.

[BO$$]

"Go work for someone else" yes, if someone else is hiring, if there are job opportunities. Real life does not work the same way as economy text books.

Furthermore, what about the cost to the country of finland? Nokia used to bring a huge amount of tax income, making the lives of citizens better in many ways. Then along comes elop and destroys nokia (with the accomplicity of the nokia board) and whoops, there goes all that tax income, all those jobs, down the drain. Who takes the responsibility? Someone should. People should be held accountable for their actions, no matter if they're rich or poor.

Some guy starts a company. The company grows and hires 1 trilion people. The company is no longer profitable ends in bankruptcy. They fire everyone. And the guy that started the company should be jailed. And you see nothing wrong with this. You can't hold the shareholders responsible for keeping an idiot in charge. It was their choice and they were free to sink their own company if they so choose. They owe nothing to finland. If finland is stupid enough to base their whole tax system on the idea that Nokia is invincible, then it's their fault. You are free to do whatever you want with your company. You cannot be held accountable for destroying your own company just because Oh my God you fired everybody the whole world is going to die thinking. Companies come and go. They usually go because of incompetence. When Microsoft dies do you want to shoot Gates or Ballmer?

[crazycheese]

Some guy starts a company. The company grows and hires 1 trilion people. The company is no longer profitable ends in bankruptcy. They fire everyone. And the guy that started the company should be jailed. And you see nothing wrong with this. You can't hold the shareholders responsible for keeping an idiot in charge. It was their choice and they were free to sink their own company if they so choose. They owe nothing to finland. If finland is stupid enough to base their whole tax system on the idea that Nokia is invincible, then it's their fault. You are free to do whatever you want with your company. You cannot be held accountable for destroying your own company just because Oh my God you fired everybody the whole world is going to die thinking. Companies come and go. They usually go because of incompetence.

Nokia wasn't come-and-go company. It had a certain degree in nobility.
Some asteroids become stars. When stars implode, it is not equal to asteroid destruction. Size does matter.

Nokia has much more impact on finnish government than an average hot-dog shop. Good government carries responsibility on own citizens. This is difference between that and totalitarian or opportunistic bandits, who call themselve government.
If the collapse was unavoidable, it should have been predicted so that people could find jobs.
However, to burn 18 Mio $ in two years is hardly a predictable unavoidable collapse. It is a crime.

The government should investigate the case, find where money was pumped, confiscate it and either restart the company or distribute the money along fellow workers till the find jobs.
This is how good government works!

Because you can't crush your 18 Mio $ jet together with its hired crew into a populated area for fun and then just walk away.

When Microsoft dies do you want to shoot Gates or Ballmer?

Nobody. Just informing their children what things the duo has done is sufficient.

[araxth]

Nokia wasn't come-and-go company. It had a certain degree in nobility.
Some asteroids become stars. When stars implode, it is not equal to asteroid destruction. Size does matter.

Nokia has much more impact on finnish government than an average hot-dog shop. Good government carries responsibility on own citizens. This is difference between that and totalitarian or opportunistic bandits, who call themselve government.
If the collapse was unavoidable, it should have been predicted so that people could find jobs.
However, to burn 18 Mio $ in two years is hardly a predictable unavoidable collapse. It is a crime.

The government should investigate the case, find where money was pumped, confiscate it and either restart the company or distribute the money along fellow workers till the find jobs.
This is how good government works!

Because you can't crush your 18 Mio $ jet together with its hired crew into a populated area for fun and then just walk away.


Nobody. Just informing their children what things the duo has done is sufficient.

One extra reason for any responsible government not to bet on a single horse, as successful as it might seem to be. Betting on a big amount of 1000 k euro hotdog shops seems to be a better choice than betting on a single 18 Mio Eu. Weren't them told by their parents not to put all the eggs in a single basket?

[crazycheese]

One extra reason for any responsible government not to bet on a single horse, as successful as it might seem to be. Betting on a big amount of 1000 k euro hotdog shops seems to be a better choice than betting on a single 18 Mio Eu. Weren't them told by their parents not to put all the eggs in a single basket?

Single baskets turn out to be more efficient, also its not government betting on baskets, its own basket decision to grow larger.

[araxth]

Single baskets turn out to be more efficient, also its not government betting on baskets, its own basket decision to grow larger.

Efficient yes, for a wile. And also risky because when the big basket went down, all the eggs were gone. And the government had to clean the mess.

No more direct tax incomes, no more indirect incomes, the social expenses increase (with unemployment payments) etc etc. One small or medium sided hotdog shop or more going down means less trouble than a single megacorporation. And I assume new small enterprises will be more likely to appear in the place left by the few hotdog shops, than a new mega corporation.

Note: by hotdog shop i mean a small sized company, regardless the activity object. the term itself was taken from a previous post. I have nothing against hot dogs, hot dogs eating people , hot dogs companies.
Also, my own economical views are liberal. I hope i will not be suspected as socialist, corporate capitalist, emo, communist, or other such labels.

[dee.]

Some guy starts a company. The company grows and hires 1 trilion people. The company is no longer profitable ends in bankruptcy. They fire everyone. And the guy that started the company should be jailed. And you see nothing wrong with this. You can't hold the shareholders responsible for keeping an idiot in charge. It was their choice and they were free to sink their own company if they so choose. They owe nothing to finland. If finland is stupid enough to base their whole tax system on the idea that Nokia is invincible, then it's their fault. You are free to do whatever you want with your company. You cannot be held accountable for destroying your own company just because Oh my God you fired everybody the whole world is going to die thinking. Companies come and go. They usually go because of incompetence. When Microsoft dies do you want to shoot Gates or Ballmer?

Well the thing is, apart from libertard fantasy world, you're in fact NOT free to do whatever you want with your "own company". In fact, in real life, there are very few "own companies", thanks to incorporation and the stock market. No one in fact OWNS a company, other than its shareholders. The CEO or the board do not OWN the company, they only lead it. And yes, they may have "limited liability", but the "limited" part mainly applies to not having to pay your own money if your company tanks.

When it comes to following laws, they very much do have liability. Namely, if a CEO or a board willingly acts in a way that is not in the shareholders' or the company's best interest, eg. willingly makes bad deals because they or their secret employer profits from trashing the company, that is ILLEGAL. If the CEO or the board make secret deals with other parties that benefit them personally but are harmful to the company, that is illegal. If the CEO or board embezzle funds from the company, that is illegal. Insider deals are also illegal.

So you see, there would be a very good case against elop, and possibly also against the nokia board for not doing anything for so long. But sadly the corruption in finnish government is probably going to prevent anything being done about this.