Valve Confirms Linux Steam Box Will Be Open Platform

[pingufunkybeat]

Why do I have to install the proprietary drivers manually after installing Ubuntu? Why don't I get them by default?

Because both the GPL and the blobs' licenses (EULA) prohibit it.

And don't you think that you're whining too hard about what amounts to installing a package? I mean, how long are you going to whine about it? Just install the package and be done with it, FFS. Then don't upgrade the kernel or X and you'll never need to worry about ABI any more.

If you keep installing new versions of kernel and X, you obviously like what the developers are doing.

[johnc]

Are you seriously suggesting that most gamers don't know how to install vendor supplied graphics drivers?

In the context of an off-the-shelf console it would certainly not be ordinary to expect the customer to install drivers before use.

Obviously a "Steam Box" would have to have proprietary drivers pre-installed or it's DOA as a consumer product.

[adriankx]

even windows i think breaks API and ABI when releasing service packs. for exp i know for sure that XP with sp3 wont work with original cd-driver that was made lets say for sp1 they will tell u need to update to lastest service pack bla bla to be able to install driver.But in linux land its true things get broken more often and i think must be nightmare for delopers of graphic driver to keep up to date on linux. But my hopes are Intel will make more and more powerfull integrated GPUs so in the future i plan to use only intel hardware at least i wont have to worry about kernel and xorg updates. Even with this shortcomings i still prefer linux over anything just when playing games i use windoze.

[BO$$]

And then there are people calling out FOSS users and developers saying they are idiots or tyrants, and that they are actively conspiring against these hardworking innocent hardware vendors. Seriously, have you not read a Phoronix thread before?

hardworking innocent hardware vendors. I am sensing irony here. What makes these vendors guilty until proven innocent? Cause I always read in these threads the idea that the FOSS guys are good and somehow AMD and Nvidia are evil. Why this assumption? Why every time I challenge this assumption I am told that FOSS good hardware vendors bad? Is this some kind of cult here?

[gamerk2]

And why should people see this as a Linux weakness, when a default Windows install does not ship with full fledged vendor drivers either? By the way, I am not entirely sure how it works, but I thought Ubuntu had Jockey?

Nowadays, Windows just automatically downloads/installs the drivers once it sees the hardware for the first time, without user intervention. (Sometimes, this is a BAD thing, like when you want to remove a driver to install a newer version, and Windows re-downloads the old driver because its database isn't updated yet.) But still, seamless to the user. Since I built my Win 7 x64 PC, I can't remember having to manually install a single driver (aside from occasional GPU driver updates, of course).

[KameZero]

Because both the GPL and the blobs' licenses (EULA) prohibit it.

Wrong on both counts, actually. Nvidia's licence specifically says:

2.1.2 Linux/FreeBSD Exception. Notwithstanding the foregoing terms of Section 2.1.1, SOFTWARE designed exclusively for use on the Linux or FreeBSD operating systems, or other operating systems derived from the source code to these operating systems, may be copied and redistributed, provided that the binary files thereof are not modified in any way (except for unzipping of compressed files).

And nowhere in the GPL does it state that you are not allowed to include a closed kernel module when shipping to a user/users. Although if you can actually find this clause in the GPL please correct me, I will admit I haven't painstakingly combed through all of it.

[Hamish Wilson]

In the context of an off-the-shelf console it would certainly not be ordinary to expect the customer to install drivers before use.

Obviously a "Steam Box" would have to have proprietary drivers pre-installed or it's DOA as a consumer product.

I was referring to the case of normal PC usage here, yes. Obviously a Steambox would be pre-configured for the prospective end user, and as I previously said they may as well use blob drivers as Steam itself is not free and they are not going to be supporting a moving target with it. I would advise anyone who would get upset with the notion of the Steambox using blobs to consider the wider picture here, and I am very satisfied R600g user who supports FOSS initiatives (which I why I am not going to get the Steambox, but anyway...)

hardworking innocent hardware vendors. I am sensing irony here. What makes these vendors guilty until proven innocent? Cause I always read in these threads the idea that the FOSS guys are good and somehow AMD and Nvidia are evil. Why this assumption? Why every time I challenge this assumption I am told that FOSS good hardware vendors bad? Is this some kind of cult here?

No, you are sensing satire here based on the expressions used by both extremes. Actually, my main point with this is to say that all of these conspiracy arguments are black and white, and that they always seem to put one camp in glowing terms against some unnameable evil. So in a way I am agreeing with you, in an offhanded way. Still, there is the fact that when one buys a vendor's product it puts the onus on them to support it for the consumer's work case, which at least puts the onus of action on the vendor if nothing else. So the assumption that the vendors should step up support is at least somewhat validated in this way.

Also, I selectively buy AMD hardware, so I can not think of them to be that evil.

Nowadays, Windows just automatically downloads/installs the drivers once it sees the hardware for the first time, without user intervention. (Sometimes, this is a BAD thing, like when you want to remove a driver to install a newer version, and Windows re-downloads the old driver because its database isn't updated yet.) But still, seamless to the user. Since I built my Win 7 x64 PC, I can't remember having to manually install a single driver (aside from occasional GPU driver updates, of course).

I will admit to not having that much real Windows experience beyond XP, so I was going on the information given by others. That being said, I have seen even modern Windows systems bork on hardware changes while I have moved Linux installs from machine to machine with little to no problems due to the in-kernel driver model (which is one of my main pragmatic reasons for supporting free software drivers). That, and the fact that that drivers which make it into the Kernel tend to last longer and have better support times than many Windows or blob drivers do. So a properly tuned free driver should be expected to provide an even more seamless experience than that. I do recognize that I am not really touching on the main subject of your post there, though.

[bridgman]

... I always read in these threads the idea that the FOSS guys are good and somehow AMD and Nvidia are evil. ...

Geez, where does that leave the AMD FOSS guys ?

[ElderSnake]

In an ideal world, the FOSS drivers would get to a point where we would barely need to worry about using the blob drivers and then the Out of the Box functionality and stability in terms of graphic drivers would far surpass even Windows.

For the time being though, if it's possible, I would have thought they would have to use Catalyst (in SteamBox). Which is maybe a little surprising if it actually is going to be an AMD machine, but I can't say this is a bad thing. NVIDIA might be the easiest way, but going with AMD could not only help that company out, but improve one of the drivers (blob or FOSS driver depending on what is used by default).

It's all very early doors though, things could change.

[Larian]

Yes, but saying advocacy is tyranny is still a tyrannical position in of itself, and a position which has promoted tyranny a lot more often than these "blind advocates" (speaking of strawmen...) that you make mention of.

Wow. There are so many things wrong with this that I'm not sure where to start. Who are you arguing against? Certainly not me. I have labeled no one a "blind advocate" of anything. What I said was that blind advocacy and bandwagon group-think is ill-considered, and they should be avoided for that reason alone.

The main thing that keeps tyranny going is apathy, which is what a lot of people who state they are on the side of "pragmatism" often accept and promote.

Not necessarily.

You can complain about someones actions, you can even criticize another's words, but please don't tell me someone can not promote a position for fear of tyranny. Because really, is that not the censor's argument, that we need it to prevent the spread of dangerous ideas in society?

Bait and switch. Also, Missing the Point. I'm not saying that promoting a position should be curbed for fear of tyranny. I'm saying absolutist positions which demand everyone kowtow to their way of doing things, and then degrading and generally bashing anyone who resists ... well sir, that's the mark of an idiot. Those who behave thus are just a wee bit of power away from being tyrants.

Now let us be done with the "T" word and its derivatives.

And then there are people calling out FOSS users and developers saying they are idiots or tyrants, and that they are actively conspiring against these hardworking innocent hardware vendors. Seriously, have you not read a Phoronix thread before?

I suppose I have failed to make myself clear. I am suggesting caution. I am also formally requesting that when arguing with me, you actually stick to the arguments I make instead of projecting those of others on me. Most often I don't agree with them.