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Thread: Alan Cox Calls Fedora 18 "The Worst Red Hat Distro"

  1. #71
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    People here are realy complaining about other people engineering new OS technologies for computer enthousiasts, and then giving it away for free.

    Why be such a whiny douchebag and switch to Windows or Mac OS X?

    Someone in this thread complained about a logout feature missing (there is a lock screen feature for that, incase you suffer from alzheimer), then gets an answer for fixing the missing feature, and then complaints about the fact that his wife is too stupid to apply it herself. Well, why don't you do it yourself, since you complained about it, IN THIS THREAD.

    I symphasize with Adam for having to inject some common fscking sense into some adult toddlers.

  2. #72
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    I'd like to echo the comments thanking Mr. Williamson for his posts and insight. Try not to let the others get you down, your presence here is greatly appreciated.

  3. #73
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    Upgraded with fedup, no problems. Using LUKS, did not run into problems. It's odd there would be problems since it mostly does a package upgrade. OTOH, proprietary drivers are always problems on Fedora, I would recommend another OS distribution (called Windows 7) if you really insist on using some.

    Did not use the installer, which doesn't look that good right now, not quite polished yet. Hopefully F19 will fix that.

    The amount of childish whining here is always simply amazing, love the never ending G3 rants (while actually G3 is very good, if you want a bad "new" desktop, you should look at W8 instead)

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out. I can't believe some people are unable to grasp the logic especially due to their own blind hatred toward Gnome in some case.
    Sorry, but it does make sense to have a log out, always, it means: close local applications, leave computer ready for remote access. (Also: restart X server gracefully)

  5. #75
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    Err, childisch whining? [Bug 896010] Upgrade doesn't start for systems with more than one encrypted partitions

    Definitelly installation/upgrade process needs lots of developers love to get straighted.
    But let's give credit where it's due, after pains of install/upgrade this release seems to be really nice (leaving aside Gnome3 problems, it's Gnome there to fault not Fedora).
    It's the first time I can use pre-release KDE (4.9.97 here) on my main system. Yep there are few annoyances, but no showstoppers.

    Yup, there's lots of cases where you want to log out/in, like refreshing groups, leaving system on without logged users, switching DEs (yup to Gnome devs suprise there are other desktop enviroments) or GS session went bonkers and needs refresh.
    Last edited by Xeno; 01-24-2013 at 08:57 AM.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    The missing log out is explained so readers can understand the rationale yet some of them prefer to scream.
    I hardly think you can explain utter stupidity... Like hiding log-out buttons, or close application buttons (without making the decorations smaller), etc., etc., etc. I didn't like the removal/lack of features in Gnome 2, now it's a complete disaster.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW View Post
    I don't think you understand what a 'customer' is. All unsatisfied Fedora 18 customers are, of course, entitled to all their money back.

    What I wrote was a perfectly genuine reply to a reasonable question. Why did we not wait until the Fedora 18 installer was perfect before releasing it? Answer: because Fedora 18 is not just the installer. Making it perfect would have been several more months of development time, during all of which, work on F19 would be held up to some degree and all the other stuff in F18 would not be reaching our user base. We shipped F18 when the installer was in an acceptable state (as defined by us), not when it was perfect. We never claimed it was perfect; in fact we explicitly warned that it was imperfect and provided links to ample documentation on both the new design and on the known issues in it.

    BTW, my 'rockstar developer lifestyle' during F18 development involved two months of working on installer testing an average of 80 hours a week, including some weeks over 100 hours. It's SO MUCH DAMN FUN.
    So, new installer. Why? I mean, was there really anything wrong with the old one that this one fixed? Seriously, it seems like change just for the sake of change. If it isn't more functional or at least simplified, I don't even know why it was being written in the first place. Also, if you all KNEW that this was most likely going to be an issue, why not just use the previous installer for this release and push the new installer back to Fedora 19? The least you could do is stand up for why your new version is BETTER as opposed to why everybody else's (a lot of people) complaints are invalid.

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomato View Post
    I hardly think you can explain utter stupidity... Like hiding log-out buttons, or close application buttons (without making the decorations smaller), etc., etc., etc. I didn't like the removal/lack of features in Gnome 2, now it's a complete disaster.
    Really, even in Gnome 2 and the fallback Gnome 3 it wasn't even THAT bad. I agree though. Anyone else think Gnome 3 (design concept and all) would actually be pretty decent, if reasonable decisions were made regarding the options they ship with?

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW View Post
    I don't think you understand what a 'customer' is. All unsatisfied Fedora 18 customers are, of course, entitled to all their money back.
    Strawman. Of course Red Hat is not a charity which develops Fedora for the benefit of mankind.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW View Post
    Because there's a whole lot of other work in F18 that needs to get out, and a whole lot of F19 work that needs to get started. The installer is just an installer, it's not everything.
    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW View Post
    Why did we not wait until the Fedora 18 installer was perfect before releasing it? Answer: because Fedora 18 is not just the installer. Making it perfect would have been several more months of development time, during all of which, work on F19 would be held up to some degree and all the other stuff in F18 would not be reaching our user base.
    I agree that the criticism that some people have voiced on Fedora 18 is too harsh, and that lots of people worked very hard to improve the release in many areas. That makes it even more sad to see their work overshadowed by that turd of an installer. I have very little insight into the development process, but it appears to me that there was no proper backup plan in place so the only choice was to push out the release:
    • Fedora 17 had an installer that worked just fine. So you could have continued to use that, and optionally provide your new installer to those who want to test it.
    • You could have recommended users to ditch the installer altogether and link to a document instead which describes manual partitioning + febootstrap as the preferred install method (Gentoo does it like this, and Arch has recently adopted this way too).
    • You could have labeled Fedora 18 as "Forever Beta" and not make it an official release, just something for the interested.

    Any of these steps would possibly have led to a lot fewer disappointed users than what we are seeing now.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW View Post
    If you want a Fedora release whose installer and upgrade tools were stabilized over a period of several years and 20+ releases, Fedora 17 is right in the torrent list. It works fine. If you want a nice polished version of newUI, you might want to wait for F19 or F20. It won't kill you.
    If that was your plan, then it is not panning out. At least the user mentioned in the article does not stay with Fedora 17. He does not wait for Fedora 19 or 20. He runs Ubuntu now.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW View Post
    What I wrote was a perfectly genuine reply to a reasonable question. Why did we not wait until the Fedora 18 installer was perfect before releasing it? Answer: because Fedora 18 is not just the installer. Making it perfect would have been several more months of development time, during all of which, work on F19 would be held up to some degree and all the other stuff in F18 would not be reaching our user base.
    Why was shipping F18 with the old installer not an option?

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