Alan Cox Calls Fedora 18 "The Worst Red Hat Distro"

[AdamW]

Congratulations, I didn't think it would be possible for you to minimize and dismiss customers' complaints so easily. Keep enjoying the rockstar developer lifestyle.

I don't think you understand what a 'customer' is. All unsatisfied Fedora 18 customers are, of course, entitled to all their money back.

What I wrote was a perfectly genuine reply to a reasonable question. Why did we not wait until the Fedora 18 installer was perfect before releasing it? Answer: because Fedora 18 is not just the installer. Making it perfect would have been several more months of development time, during all of which, work on F19 would be held up to some degree and all the other stuff in F18 would not be reaching our user base. We shipped F18 when the installer was in an acceptable state (as defined by us), not when it was perfect. We never claimed it was perfect; in fact we explicitly warned that it was imperfect and provided links to ample documentation on both the new design and on the known issues in it.

BTW, my 'rockstar developer lifestyle' during F18 development involved two months of working on installer testing an average of 80 hours a week, including some weeks over 100 hours. It's SO MUCH DAMN FUN.

[finalzone]

Well, you know those Fedora developers, common sense is probably encumbered by a patent therefore they can't use it.

Yet you wonder why those developers (if all) ignore you with that approach above. :sigh:

[reflexing]

Just want to thank AdamW for very insightful posts in this thread and all Fedora contributors for Fedora 18 release!

I had upgraded with fedup successfully, everything is working nice.

Thank you all very much again!

[V!NCENT]

People here are realy complaining about other people engineering new OS technologies for computer enthousiasts, and then giving it away for free.

Why be such a whiny douchebag and switch to Windows or Mac OS X?

Someone in this thread complained about a logout feature missing (there is a lock screen feature for that, incase you suffer from alzheimer), then gets an answer for fixing the missing feature, and then complaints about the fact that his wife is too stupid to apply it herself. Well, why don't you do it yourself, since you complained about it, IN THIS THREAD.

I symphasize with Adam for having to inject some common fscking sense into some adult toddlers.

[archibald]

I'd like to echo the comments thanking Mr. Williamson for his posts and insight. Try not to let the others get you down, your presence here is greatly appreciated.

[remm]

Upgraded with fedup, no problems. Using LUKS, did not run into problems. It's odd there would be problems since it mostly does a package upgrade. OTOH, proprietary drivers are always problems on Fedora, I would recommend another OS distribution (called Windows 7) if you really insist on using some.

Did not use the installer, which doesn't look that good right now, not quite polished yet. Hopefully F19 will fix that.

The amount of childish whining here is always simply amazing, love the never ending G3 rants (while actually G3 is very good, if you want a bad "new" desktop, you should look at W8 instead)

[tomato]

That is Gnome 3.6 feature, not Fedora. With a single user using only one desktop environment i.e Gnome Shell, it does not make sense to have a log out. Add another desktop environment or an user to enable log out. I can't believe some people are unable to grasp the logic especially due to their own blind hatred toward Gnome in some case.

Sorry, but it does make sense to have a log out, always, it means: close local applications, leave computer ready for remote access. (Also: restart X server gracefully)

[Xeno]

Err, childisch whining? [Bug 896010] Upgrade doesn't start for systems with more than one encrypted partitions

Definitelly installation/upgrade process needs lots of developers love to get straighted.
But let's give credit where it's due, after pains of install/upgrade this release seems to be really nice (leaving aside Gnome3 problems, it's Gnome there to fault not Fedora).
It's the first time I can use pre-release KDE (4.9.97 here) on my main system. Yep there are few annoyances, but no showstoppers.

Yup, there's lots of cases where you want to log out/in, like refreshing groups, leaving system on without logged users, switching DEs (yup to Gnome devs suprise there are other desktop enviroments) or GS session went bonkers and needs refresh.

[tomato]

The missing log out is explained so readers can understand the rationale yet some of them prefer to scream.

I hardly think you can explain utter stupidity... Like hiding log-out buttons, or close application buttons (without making the decorations smaller), etc., etc., etc. I didn't like the removal/lack of features in Gnome 2, now it's a complete disaster.

[LinuxID10T]

I don't think you understand what a 'customer' is. All unsatisfied Fedora 18 customers are, of course, entitled to all their money back.

What I wrote was a perfectly genuine reply to a reasonable question. Why did we not wait until the Fedora 18 installer was perfect before releasing it? Answer: because Fedora 18 is not just the installer. Making it perfect would have been several more months of development time, during all of which, work on F19 would be held up to some degree and all the other stuff in F18 would not be reaching our user base. We shipped F18 when the installer was in an acceptable state (as defined by us), not when it was perfect. We never claimed it was perfect; in fact we explicitly warned that it was imperfect and provided links to ample documentation on both the new design and on the known issues in it.

BTW, my 'rockstar developer lifestyle' during F18 development involved two months of working on installer testing an average of 80 hours a week, including some weeks over 100 hours. It's SO MUCH DAMN FUN.

So, new installer. Why? I mean, was there really anything wrong with the old one that this one fixed? Seriously, it seems like change just for the sake of change. If it isn't more functional or at least simplified, I don't even know why it was being written in the first place. Also, if you all KNEW that this was most likely going to be an issue, why not just use the previous installer for this release and push the new installer back to Fedora 19? The least you could do is stand up for why your new version is BETTER as opposed to why everybody else's (a lot of people) complaints are invalid.