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Thread: Fedora Proposal To Use Cinnamon Desktop By Default

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    I know you can install gnome-shell basicly to every distribution somehow... thats not the question,
    The version I highlighted is Gnome 3 in a stock configuration. It's basically de-ubuntu'd. It's not the same as installing gnome-shell ontop of another distro.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    the question is if you like to stick on a distro where the payed developers will not ever support all that well. And then there are the other reasons to switch away from ubuntu, adware, very few upstream engagement..., musik shop earning percentages (vs the original I think rhytmbox plugin that did generate money for them)... etc the list is long, thats only what I have in mind spontanious there were more... the openess to the blobs, the od amd-love where they get exclusivly drivers earlier etc...
    Well you can't force Canonical to support G3. Personally I think they would be better suited to create extensions in order to provide the Unity look and leave the Compiz+Unity+ who knows behind. It sure as hell would be less work.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    So then gnome-shell is one point to change to fedora and not to something else its the tipping point for somebody who are not very happy with ubuntu and its dominance...

    EDIT: it gets pretty closedsource and proprietary experince... ubuntu one... closed source launchpad... go on... yes they do not break the gpl... but its a bit like organic food from supermarkets its the lowest quality possible with the logo.
    Personally I don't mind Ubuntu's dominance. It's not like they knifed the other distros to get there. They understood that in order for people to move to Linux it required things to basically work out of the box. So they pulled the most stable things from stable and testing and packaged them up with a pretty bow on top. You can't really blame them for giving people what they want. If anything Ubuntu provided the schematic of what a good distro should be for regular people. I doubt you would have Steam without the pull that Canonical brings. The popularity of Gnome 2 was due in large part to Ubuntu as well.

    Now Canonical is at the stage (barely) where they are trying to figure out how you can make money off of a distro geared towards desktop users. Of course not a lot of people agree with their approach. When I found out how much data Canonical was collecting via Zeitgeist I damn near pissed myself. But it's my choice to either use regular Ubuntu or switch to something else. I switched to a bare stock version of G3 and it's OK.

    That being said I am worried about the future of G3. I currently use it and it's pretty damn good. No, it's not a "tablet OS" whatever that means. No, the basic paradigm of desktop computing isn't ruined. In fact it's cleaner and far more cohesive than G2 ever was. The extensions cover about 90% of the gripes people have with the stock versions of it. Likewise, the kvetching about extensions breaking on upgrade seems to be well... stupid; you know what other programs do this? Firefox and probably a good number of other browsers as well. Drivers do as well. The easiest way to prevent that is to not use the bleeding edge versions of G3. Most of the popular extensions get upgraded usually around the time a newer version of G3 shows up on distro. It's really not a problem for end users.

    Now with regards to Fedora I hope they keep the regular version of G3. G3 needs a platform to showcase their improvements and without it they are dead in the water.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu View Post

    Personally I don't mind Ubuntu's dominance. It's not like they knifed the other distros to get there. They understood that in order for people to move to Linux it required things to basically work out of the box. So they pulled the most stable things from stable and testing and packaged them up with a pretty bow on top. You can't really blame them for giving people what they want. If anything Ubuntu provided the schematic of what a good distro should be for regular people. I doubt you would have Steam without the pull that Canonical brings. The popularity of Gnome 2 was due in large part to Ubuntu as well.
    yes in gnome2 days they did good work, no question about that.

    you cant blame em for giving people what they want... if you argue that way you could not blame microsoft for their software. I do that, and nobody wanted to have adware as example. I daubt that, opensuse would be also good enough for regular people... even today some think its better than what ubuntu others. I wrote a article in the german easy linux and they basicly use only kde because gnome is to freeky ^^.


    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu View Post
    Now Canonical is at the stage (barely) where they are trying to figure out how you can make money off of a distro geared towards desktop users. Of course not a lot of people agree with their approach. When I found out how much data Canonical was collecting via Zeitgeist I damn near pissed myself. But it's my choice to either use regular Ubuntu or switch to something else. I switched to a bare stock version of G3 and it's OK.
    yes ok it is, but somethines you want more than just "ok" ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu View Post
    That being said I am worried about the future of G3.
    and who is guilty of that, yes a big part of it canonical, would they have used gnome-shell as default (they could of cause make other tastes netbook edition or tablet edition or whatever) gnome-shell would be default in nearly all distros.
    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu View Post
    I currently use it and it's pretty damn good. No, it's not a "tablet OS" whatever that means. No, the basic paradigm of desktop computing isn't ruined. In fact it's cleaner and far more cohesive than G2 ever was. The extensions cover about 90% of the gripes people have with the stock versions of it. Likewise, the kvetching about extensions breaking on upgrade seems to be well... stupid; you know what other programs do this? Firefox and probably a good number of other browsers as well. Drivers do as well. The easiest way to prevent that is to not use the bleeding edge versions of G3. Most of the popular extensions get upgraded usually around the time a newer version of G3 shows up on distro. It's really not a problem for end users.
    I have no problem with it... except I think sometimes awesome-wm is be better, and it could be even more keyboard oriented, and multi-monitor capable like awesome. The problem what I have with awesome-wm and similar is that the powermanagement and such stuff not work always right, even if I start gnome-powermanager or whats the name? I think, or gnome-energy-daemon or whatever ^^ even than not all works perfektly... but thats a gnome-problem I think, if I let the hdmi cable in the laptop and I close it it goes not into sleep mode and in settings I found nothing about that, than in awesome I also have no button to go into sleep manually as backup ^^, but ok a special problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu View Post
    Now with regards to Fedora I hope they keep the regular version of G3. G3 needs a platform to showcase their improvements and without it they are dead in the water.
    Agree to that ^^ except they bring a real gnome-os ^^ not just as a marketing term ^^

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu View Post
    Personally I don't mind Ubuntu's dominance. It's not like they knifed the other distros to get there.
    That is debatable. I don't think there is much question that they timed their release schedules to be shortly before those of other distros, then pulled in the features from other distros first, then did not correct users when they assumed Ubuntu developed said features. I haven't heard it much recently, but there was a while where Ubuntu fans were going on and on about the great Linux stuff Ubuntu developed, when really they had no part whatsoever in the development, it just timed things so it would be first to have the features. Then there was the case where they decided to bury all mentioned of debian deep in their technical documentation so there was no hint to users that Ubuntu was actually based on another distribution. Yeah, you could find a mention of debian six layers deep in the documentation in the 4th paragraph or something like that, but no user would find it unless they were specifically looking for it.

    Of course none of those things are illegal, but I know many people did consider those sorts of things being "knifed in the back", since they were intentionally promoting themselves at the expense of the groups actually doing the work.

  4. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    So you refer to a problem most users dont have...
    http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=89320165
    http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=89320179

    Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies...


  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobu
    I don't see why not. They may not have been at first (first you need to write the tools, of course), but after they're working and relatively bug-free there should be nothing stopping you from using them for developing themselves further. In fact, that is IMHO what should be done, as eating your own dog-food is a good way to know whether it needs some extra spice to make it not taste so bad
    Tablets are nice addition for some tasks where use of desktop PC is impractical or inconvenient, like casual reading of books, comics and using as advanced controller in some cases (e.g. DJ-ing and what not) but are not that powerful
    nor are designed (with this in mind) to be desktop PC replacement how marketing morons and some IT journalists are yammering about "post PC era".


    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu
    that being said I am worried about the future of G3. I currently use it and it's pretty damn good. No, it's not a "tablet OS" whatever that means.
    "Tablet OS", meaning app-centric not task-centric.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu
    Likewise, the kvetching about extensions breaking on upgrade seems to be well... stupid; you know what other programs do this? Firefox and probably a good number of other browsers as well
    You know, Firefox is not DE and I don't expect that extensions for DE breaks on upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu
    In fact it's cleaner and far more cohesive than G2 ever was.
    DE being largely dependent on GPU acceleration is not OK, fallback mode in GNOME 3 sucks btw.

    Quote Originally Posted by kaczu
    That being said I am worried about the future of G3.
    GNOME developers are autistic, they don't listen users nor developers (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8745257437.html), only themselves. They are literally dumbing down some of GNOME apps (they already did that with GNOME 3 as DE for that matter, KDE approach (with Plasma Netbook option) is much better in that regard, concerning tablet like interface) e.g. one of more important part of OS from user point of view, file manager, Nautilus.

    http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/07/i...direction-poll

    I used to be GNOME 2 user and I like it very much (more than KDE 3 and 4) but than I took an arrow in the knee with GNOME Shell and Unity.

    Fortunately there is MATE, Cinnamon and XFCE. In fact, XFCE thanks to GNOME 3 and Unity (global menu and Unity Dash) mess propably expanded its user base.

  6. #246
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    yep ubuntu sure did hide the debian stuff pretty well



    firefox bookmarks

    ubuntu
    ubuntu wiki
    launchpad
    Debian (ubuntu is based on debian)
    ubuntu one





    black cat lying bitch






    In fedora you aren't stuck with the kernel you got on the iso and it updates kernel easily, in ubuntu it's more difficult


    so yeah that's one plus


    but I won't be touching fedora again after the abortion that was fedora 18


    gnome 3.6 is a piece of shit and until they don't realize that, they are going to suck

    also needs a better software center UI
    Last edited by Pallidus; 03-02-2013 at 05:52 AM.

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallidus View Post
    yep ubuntu sure did hide the debian stuff pretty well
    It's good that they decided to add that back after removing it for a while.

  8. #248
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    stop trying to damage reputations

    it has always been there in every ubuntu distro I've used


    same thing for amazon shit

    go to software center remove unity shopping lenses and youube lenses and wtf lenses


    " oh but this shit is spyware and it's going to rape my ass like a mountain goat " ffs


    you don't like it because YOU DON'T or because it's south african or some racist shit like that

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallidus View Post
    stop trying to damage reputations

    it has always been there in every ubuntu distro I've used
    The the VSC history flat-out says it was removed and then re-added. I think it knows a bit better than you do what has been changed.
    Last edited by TheBlackCat; 03-02-2013 at 07:39 AM.

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