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Thread: Fedora Proposal To Use Cinnamon Desktop By Default

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    Alernate gnome shell if users cannot remember which app:
    Super key (or slide to top left or click Activities) -> type keyword category like image -> Select apps (for example gimp)
    Alernate Cinnamon if users cannot remember which app:
    Super key (or click Menu) -> type keyword category like image -> Select apps (for example gimp)


    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    That example is vague because it does not describe if the apps are open or started. On gnome shell:
    super key for overview and select the current open app you want.
    True, under gnome shell if the app is already open there's an extra step. Right click.

    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    Visually, trying to click on a task bar (smaller in some case) is a matter to guessing with several open apps.
    Trying to tell multiple terminals or browser windows apart in Gnome Shell is just as hard. With both you're going to end up identifying based on the title of the window.

    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    Remember the way to open an application varies from individuals. You can easily assign your frequently used apps on the dasher (dock located on the left)
    You can add favorite apps to the panel in Cinnamon, still faster since you don't have to open the overlay.
    Last edited by thalaric; 01-28-2013 at 02:51 PM.

  2. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by thalaric View Post
    Alernate Cinnamon if users cannot remember which app:
    Super key (or click Menu) -> type keyword category like image -> Select apps (for example gimp)
    Basically inherited from Gnome Shell Cinnamon is based from.

    True, under gnome shell if the app is already open there's an extra step. Right click.
    You forgot middle-click on current open app which will open a new window, dragging an app icon to the empty overview in current workspace or another.


    Trying to tell multiple terminals or browser windows apart in Gnome Shell is just as hard. At least with the taskbar you have part of the title to go on.
    Each window has a title underneath enough to know with one you wish to use. The taskbar easily becomes cluttered leading to the difficulty to distinguish windows app. You will need more skill to accurately hit own bar .



    You can add favorite apps to the panel in Cinnamon, still faster since you don't have to open the overlay.
    Exactly how fast?

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by thalaric View Post
    Because that isn't the workflow.

    Opening Apps
    Gnome Shell: 1) slide to top left, 2) slide to mode change, 3) click, 4) find application in app list or categories
    Cinnamon: 1) slide to bottom menu 2) click 3) find application in app list or categories

    Switching Apps
    Gnome Shell: 1) slide to top left 2) slide to big icon 3) click
    Cinnamon: 1) slide to taskbar icon 2) click

    There is a clear winner here as far as time and effort involved.
    Look, we can argue the finer details of each window manager all day long and it won't really matter.
    Fact is, that for me personally, Gnome-Shell works better/faster than any other desktop I've tried so far.
    You might have a different opinion, and that is fine. It is however not some kind of universal fact.

    Edit: I remembered you don't have to click to open the overlay, which is actually a detriment because it's always triggering on accident.
    Accidently trigger the overlay is the only gripe I have with GS. I believe this is scheduled to be fixed with XInput2(?).

  4. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by kigurai View Post
    Look, we can argue the finer details of each window manager all day long and it won't really matter.
    Fact is, that for me personally, Gnome-Shell works better/faster than any other desktop I've tried so far.
    You might have a different opinion, and that is fine. It is however not some kind of universal fact.
    Sure, some people will prefer doing things in a less efficient manner. That is fine. For me, it comes down to the desktop. On my 21" screen I have a bunch of prime real estate available, and gnome shell doesn't use any of it to make my life easier. They've moved everything out into the overlay and removed support for allowing nautilus to control the desktop. I'm left with a completely empty inefficient blue wallpaper with a top bar that doesn't do anything.

    I'm all for new innovations when they give some kind of advantage, GS isn't it though.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    Basically inherited from Gnome Shell Cinnamon is based from.
    Exactly, Cinnamon makes Gnome3 technology useful again.

    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    The taskbar easily becomes cluttered leading to the difficulty to distinguish windows app. You will need more skill to accurately hit own bar .
    This is a problem with large amounts of windows open, and the traditional fix is application grouping. Personally I prefer it without grouping to save a click since I usually don't have over 10 windows open on each workspace.

    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    Exactly how fast?
    Faster.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by thalaric View Post
    Sure, some people will prefer doing things in a less efficient manner. That is fine. For me, it comes down to the desktop. On my 21" screen I have a bunch of prime real estate available, and gnome shell doesn't use any of it to make my life easier. They've moved everything out into the overlay and removed support for allowing nautilus to control the desktop. I'm left with a completely empty inefficient blue wallpaper with a top bar that doesn't do anything.

    I'm all for new innovations when they give some kind of advantage, GS isn't it though.
    Here are Shell extensions which give you a taskbar:

    - Dash-to-Dock (highly recommended)
    - Taskbar

    And here's - How to enable Desktop Icons.


    The main productivity thing I love about Gnome-Shell (and it's kin: Cinnamon & Gala), is dynamic activity management. I'm a visually minded person, so keeping things spatially separate really helps me categorize my work. It makes me more productive, and less frustrated. Sometimes I'll have 5-8 difference activities open, so having dynamic activities which scale to my needs on-demand is key.

    That's not to say Gnome-Shell doesn't have it's flaws and short-comings. It does. However, I don't think "productivity" is one of them. I get very frustrated with Windows these days cause I can't separate tasks well (or middle-click-push windows), and fixed-count-activity DE's like Unity/Xfce/etc feel much more restricted.

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    Gnome devs: Do as the users say. Make things customizable, since not all users have the same workflow. Stop with the branding bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
    I've suggested that you go to FOSDEM before. The conference is upcoming weekend. Assume you'll attend?

  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by thalaric View Post
    They've moved everything out into the overlay and removed support for allowing nautilus to control the desktop.
    What do you mean? Nautilus can still render a desktop. The only plan is to move that code from Nautilus into a new component (for Unity). The plan is that GNOME shell will draw the background directly, that might cause issues with Nautilus showing its stuff on top (maybe yes, maybe no), but it will still work under any other desktop.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    No, I don't think that they should not change, they should. But it has always been their stated goal to be THE desktop for everyone (after killing KDE). They did a lot of politics to get into that position. This would be a very large departure from this plan.

    In any case, the days of the desktop dichotomy are over. Now we have 4-5 good contenders in KDE, GNOME, Xfce, Unity and Cinnamon. And, of course the "WM+launcher+apps" crowd which will always be a significant factor on the Linux desktop.
    Fully quoting because I only want to add a little bit and quoting only a small part likely distorts what you said.

    During 1.x days there was indeed a time that KDE should not be needed. That was when GNOME was small and Qt was not LGPL licenced. The goal is still to be a really useable desktop. However, killing KDE is not part of this. Freedesktop.org was created many years ago to work together across desktops to ensure we do things in a standard way. The only reason freedesktop.org works is because people want it to work (some people think freedesktop.org somehow can enforce things). Obviously people developing GNOME are mainly interested in GNOME, but that's pretty logical.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkor View Post
    What do you mean? Nautilus can still render a desktop. The only plan is to move that code from Nautilus into a new component (for Unity). The plan is that GNOME shell will draw the background directly, that might cause issues with Nautilus showing its stuff on top (maybe yes, maybe no), but it will still work under any other desktop.
    I don't believe that they are moving any code into Gnome Shell. Their minimalist approach to the desktop does not allow it to do anything useful like contain icons or widgets. I'm glad you can change a registry setting to reenable nautilus mode, but that remains unsupported by gnome. From Vim_User's link:

    André Klapper [developer] wrote on 2012-03-22 15:29:14 UTC (In reply to
    comment #25):

    > Is the nautilus desktop abandoned?

    Sure [it is], as gnome-shell has been the default GNOME desktop interface for a year now and having Nautilus render the desktop is disabled by default.

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