Fedora Proposal To Use Cinnamon Desktop By Default

[kigurai]

Why should end users waste time installing missing functionality when other desktop environments have sane defaults? What gnome developers did to nautilus is just another example of hubris. Either gnome will loosen up on its "vision" or it will continue to lose ground. Personally, I think it's likely they will start to compromise more. I noticed Fedora 18 had a shutdown menu item despite over a year of claiming it didn't belong there. Is that in official GS 1.6?

What is this magic feature that everyone seems to use in nautilus that is no longer there?
Yes, the shutdown button is back. I don't think it was really a "compromise". It was (in my opinion) a bad decision, and they changed it. The relevant bug is here: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=675802

[cbamber85]

Why not give people the empowerment of choice?

KDE, XFCE, MATE, Cinnamon, etc. You've never had more choice, so pick one and quit whining.

[thalaric]

What is this magic feature that everyone seems to use in nautilus that is no longer there?
Yes, the shutdown button is back.

For me the magic feature is tree view. For others it will be a different missing feature because they pulled out a complete bullet list for the 1.6 cycle.

BTW, if you click through your link to the other bug it references you can read them trying to figure out if they need a power off option. How long did it take them to come to that conclusion? Classic. I'm sure that was the only decision they were mistaken on though.

[kigurai]

BTW, if you click through your link to the other bug it references you can read them trying to figure out if they need a power off option. How long did it take them to come to that conclusion? Classic. I'm sure that was the only decision they were mistaken on though.

Mistake was made, and is now corrected. The fact that you could find something negative about this shows what a fantastic place Phoronix is.

[headuparses]

Mistake was made, and is now corrected. The fact that you could find something negative about this shows what a fantastic place Phoronix is.

Of course, Gnome devs is the holiest of people around, they make "mistake", not design decision I tell ya, after "mistake" and backped- ehm, correcting themselves after community began to leav- ehm, they realize the error. And of course, that was the only "mistake" they ever made.

Oh with you around, Kigurai, Phoronix is a wonderful place to be, in gnome dream land, where no other user use case exist and yours is the only perfect way to use gnome, don't try too hard to "understand" their moaning about missing features you don't miss, it's inferior in Gnome dream land.

[kigurai]

Of course, Gnome devs is the holiest of people around, they make "mistake", not design decision I tell ya, after "mistake" and backped- ehm, correcting themselves after community began to leav- ehm, they realize the error. And of course, that was the only "mistake" they ever made.

We can call it a bad design decision instead of a mistake, if that makes you happy. They meant the same to me.
I don't think anyone has claimed that there are no more mistakes or bad design decisions.

Oh with you around, Kigurai, Phoronix is a wonderful place to be, in gnome dream land, where no other user use case exist and yours is the only perfect way to use gnome, don't try too hard to "understand" their moaning about missing features you don't miss, it's inferior in Gnome dream land.

Yeah, because it's not like I actually pointed out just that a few pages ago. It's like no one actually reads all the 21 pages of this thread before replying
On a more serious note, and to reiterate: I don't think GNOME is for everyone. It probably has never been since there were obviously lots of KDE/XFCE/LXDE/...-users long before GNOME3.
If you are not interested in the GNOME-approach to things, you are lucky to have multiple other offers.

[Hamish Wilson]

Again, all of these complaints about hubris and ego when it seems to me that the anti-GNOME camp has evolved into a mutual moaning society that seems hell bent on bashing on anyone and everyone who disagrees with them. You do not get the sick irony of you bashing the GNOME devs for only allowing for their vision but then you do the exact same thing when espousing your own? Grow up everyone, please.

Some people like GNOME Shell, such as kigurai, and this offends you. It goes against your worldview. Suck it up. Other people use a computer differently than you. It is about the freedom to choose and use what suits them best, something you people love to espouse but refuse to actually acknowledge applies to yourselves.

Also, here we have another example of the Gnome developers actually doing what you want which you then somehow use as an example of how they do not listen to you. Yeah, interesting that...

And I am an Xfce user, so you can not just write off my comments as being from some raging Gnome Fanboy.

[thalaric]

Again, all of these complaints about hubris and ego when it seems to me that the anti-GNOME camp has evolved into a mutual moaning society that seems hell bent on bashing on anyone and everyone who disagrees with them. You do not get the sick irony of you bashing the GNOME devs for only allowing for their vision but then you do the exact same thing when espousing your own? Grow up everyone, please.

Again, nobody here cares what desktop anyone uses. This discussion is about the default desktop only serving a minority of users and removing functionality that everyone else uses.

Some people like GNOME Shell, such as kigurai, and this offends you. It goes against your worldview. Suck it up. Other people use a computer differently than you. It is about the freedom to choose and use what suits them best, something you people love to espouse but refuse to actually acknowledge applies to yourselves.

It doesn't offend me at all, it's just that if his desktop is default then Cinnamon, XFCE, or Mate can't be. He is just part of a minority who's needs are met by the current default desktop.

Also, here we have another example of the Gnome developers actually doing what you want which you then somehow use as an example of how they do not listen to you. Yeah, interesting that...

And I am an Xfce user, so you can not just write off my comments as being from some raging Gnome Fanboy.

This is NOT an example of gnome listening. This is the exact opposite. Since the release of Gnome Shell v1 people have begged Gnome to include a power off menu item and they stubbornly claimed that it belonged in GDM, not Gnome Shell. A year or two later they independently come to the same conclusion that everyone was telling them all along. That is what deserves ::

[BO$$]

I think all this 'vision' stuff they say is just crap. Just an excuse. There is no vision. They are massively understaffed so they thought to remove as much functionality as possible in order to be able to test the thing properly. Then they created those extensions crap for basic stuff hoping that the ones writing the extension will actually test and make sure there are no bugs. Vision, branding whatever they wanna call it, they simplified everything because of lack of manpower. This is the most reasonable excuse I can come up with for them.

[Hamish Wilson]

Again, nobody here cares what desktop anyone uses. This discussion is about the default desktop only serving a minority of users and removing functionality that everyone else uses.

Again, that is not what this sounds like here, and you certainly do not have enough of a handle of the wider picture to definitively say that it only serves a minority of users. This whole thread seems more like a witchhunt against GNOME users perpetrated by people who have gotten themselves so personally wound up in this battle that they have lost all sense of how to distance themselves from it in order to still think objectively. Please study your own motivations and assumptions here. You may be surprised with what you find out about yourself (as a general rule we should all be doing this all the time anyway, but we always do seem to need the reminder).

It doesn't offend me at all, it's just that if his desktop is default then Cinnamon, XFCE, or Mate can't be. He is just part of a minority who's needs are met by the current default desktop.

Says who exactly? Just because you dislike it does not suddenly make it unusable or even the wrong choice for the default. There has certainly not been enough evidence posted here to say that it does not work for most people, or at the very least that it does not work best for the operating system as a whole. But in the end it is not mine or your call to make - it is up to the Project Board to make these decisions, and I am sure they do make them very carefully. Besides, it is not as if Fedora puts that much emphasis on defaults, and it is very open about pointing out the existence of spins. So I fail to understand the need for all of this egotistical flaming.

This is NOT an example of gnome listening. This is the exact opposite. Since the release of Gnome Shell v1 people have begged Gnome to include a power off menu item and they stubbornly claimed that it belonged in GDM, not Gnome Shell. A year or two later they independently come to the same conclusion that everyone was telling them all along. That is what deserves ::

They implemented a feature as was prescribed by their design specification, it proved unpopular, and they eventually reverted it. How does this not equate to listening to their users? Of course any new change to the design needs to be justified, and many times politics and yes egos will get involved as this is still a human endeavour, but the simple fact is they did in the end accept the feedback and acted on it. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that? Same thing with the classic mode, which has no place in the grand scheme of Shell but is being worked on purely for the needs of a specific subset of users. As I said, this is still a human project, and the least you people can do is actually give credit where credit is due and try to be constructive whenever possible, instead of the arrogant posturing shown here.