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Thread: Systemd Dreams Up New Feature, Makes It Like Cron

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Success isnt forcing people to use it... I'm talking about people wanting to use it because its good stuff. I've heard more complaints from more people than from those who support it.
    It's nice how much power you think Lennart has in Red Hat... But yeah there's quite a few distributions that have switched to systemd:

    openSUSE and Fedora being the first, I think those are particulary important as Red Hat Linux and SuSE are the most important enterprise distributions out there. RHL 7 is going to have systemd and in all likehood so will SEL 12. This is of course going to lead to Oracle Linux, CentOS, Scientific Linux... to adopt systemd too.

    Then there was Mageia, Mandriva, Arch Linux, frugalware, Chakra, NixOS... just from the top of my head.

    GENEVI Alliance and The Linux Foundation's Automotive Grade Linux Workgroup both chose systemd as the init system of their IVI platforms. This means top class support for systemd from various embedded system vendors, MontaVista Linux for example.

    Mobile operaiting systems like MeeGo, Tizen, Mer and Sailfish have all chosen systemd too.

    Then there's the rest of the embedded system market that is less formal but to my understanding peole have been very interested in it. The Ångström and Yocto for example has support for systemd.

    But yeah... no one is forced to use systemd.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    Theeeeeeeeeen...who knows XD

    Edit: maybe its listed as an F19 feature because it'll have it at launch-time? When F18 got released systemd didnt have it and therefore wasn't considered a "Feature." F19 will have systemd 197+ at launch time and therefore it IS considered a feature?
    Yes and also the rest of the distribution might integrate better with it rather than it be a standalone feature. In Fedora, a lot of features that are advertised for one release are actually available later in previous versions.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by newwen View Post
    I'd like Canonical to ditch upstart and to switch to systemd in order to avoid having to maintain separate pieces of system core code that have almost the same functionality. But I guess that having invested so much money on it, at least a bit of NIH Syndrome applies.
    Funny you should say that, as Upstart happens to depend a library called libNIH

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    My point is: the people who don't like something are always more vocal than those who do.
    I don't really see anyone being unhappy with systemd. The general consensus seems to be "it works just as well as anything else". Only Gentoo and Debian are concerned about it, but that comes with their broad scope. And other sources of discontent are usually due to misinformation about the current version...

    I'm now wondering whether I should use systemd in my new Gentoo install or not. On one hand, it's rather new and not considered by many older tutorials, and not every program has service files, on the other hand, it does have some really interesting features, and converting startup scripts to service files should be rather trivial... Hmm...

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    I wouldnt call it "doing what you want" Its more like "doing what you have no other choice but to do".
    And if you don't do it the systemd way, then you are doing it wrong. If you have different values, then you you are wrong.

    systemd is technically doing many things "right". Too bad they don't value things the way I do.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    I'm now wondering whether I should use systemd in my new Gentoo install or not. On one hand, it's rather new and not considered by many older tutorials, and not every program has service files, on the other hand, it does have some really interesting features, and converting startup scripts to service files should be rather trivial... Hmm...
    Make sure you check both the Arch Linux wiki (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Systemd/Services) and the Gentoo wiki (http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Systemd) to see if there's an available .service file for your daemon. If they do, I would actually recommend putting those in /usr/lib/systemd/system instead of /etc/systemd/system for the sole reason: if one day the package provides its own .service file, it will automatically overwrite the non-native one you copy-pasted or wrote yourself, assuming they have the same name

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Its OBVIOUS that Lennart Poettering disagrees with a lot of other people. He is disregarding their views as "myths" and is ignoring their input and is even working to circumvent them. How successful can his projects be when it is so clear of his bias?
    "You are holding it wrong"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    I'm now wondering whether I should use systemd in my new Gentoo install or not. On one hand, it's rather new and not considered by many older tutorials, and not every program has service files, on the other hand, it does have some really interesting features, and converting startup scripts to service files should be rather trivial... Hmm...
    Thats quite easy to answer. Which side will gain further advantages by tomorrow? Is it the easy maintained CoreOS from the systemd git tree OR a bunch separate trees containing forks, fragmented shit and near-deadware?

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    I'm now wondering whether I should use systemd in my new Gentoo install or not. On one hand, it's rather new and not considered by many older tutorials, and not every program has service files, on the other hand, it does have some really interesting features, and converting startup scripts to service files should be rather trivial... Hmm...
    I'd recommend waiting until your distribution has defaulted on it. Integrating it properly does require some attention to detail. If it is the default you can expect that work to be completed. If not, there might be a bit of pain involved. I forgot the details, but there are various packages can rely on systemd. Some of which need to have their systemd support enabled at the same time. If you do not (e.g. package X with, and package Y without), you'll see some bugs. Those are just packaging issues, but could give a bad impression.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkSTAR View Post
    Thats quite easy to answer. Which side will gain further advantages by tomorrow? Is it the easy maintained CoreOS from the systemd git tree OR a bunch separate trees containing forks, fragmented shit and near-deadware?
    The whole point is that the decision should be made based on the quality of the code, and not because essential kernel interfaces (udev) are being crippled to screw the competition.

    That's the whole point. upstart, OpenRC and systemd should coexist and the best one (fewest bugs, best performance, easiest to maintain, easiest to use) should win based on merits.

    THAT is the main problem with systemd -- its hostile management. Being Linux-only is the other.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Its OBVIOUS that Lennart Poettering disagrees with a lot of other people. He is disregarding their views as "myths" and is ignoring their input and is even working to circumvent them. How successful can his projects be when it is so clear of his bias?
    He gave a detailed reply to every myth that he sees. Suggest being concrete and argue point by point. Making vague statements is just that.

    For instance, you say he ignores a lot of people and disregard their views as "myths". While on systemd-devel list as well as Google+ you can see that he's attending loads of conferences, responds to various suggestions, he's holding a BoF with various distributions at FOSDEM. Not just him, but the other systemd developers do that as well.

    Now to your other point, how succesful can his projects be? I think it was explained various times that his projects are widely used. Suggest reading the comments in this article, or one of the other systemd articles.

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