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Thread: John Carmack Pushes Wine For Linux Gaming

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  1. #1
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    Default John Carmack Pushes Wine For Linux Gaming

    Phoronix: John Carmack Pushes Wine For Linux Gaming

    John Carmack, the co-founder of id Software and lead developer of the id Tech engine for the Doom and Quake franchises, is now promoting Wine for Linux gaming rather than native Linux ports...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTI5MzE

  2. #2
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    If I may quote my self from a Google+ comment:

    What is this? Did he every try Wine with a bunch of games?

    Furthermore, to write software for one platform and hoping for wrappers/emulators (whatever) on other platforms to execute it doesn't replace sane software engineering. In fact, it's the opposite.

    I mean - just dare to write that sentence in a cs exam.

  3. #3
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    Furthermore, to write software for one platform and hoping for wrappers/emulators (whatever) on other platforms to execute it doesn't replace sane software engineering. In fact, it's the opposite.

    I mean - just dare to write that sentence in a cs exam.
    That comment would stand up better if Windows were more open and predictable. I gather much of Wine is based on reverse-engineering and guesswork.

  4. #4

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    Well that's disappointing. He said being bought out won't change much how they operate, but it clearly does. In the past they've been pretty supportive of Linux, and now that's all gone, because all of the sudden they can just fly the "it doesn't make business sense" excuse in our face.

  5. #5
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    Two words for you Carmack: Steam Box

    If Valve wants to bring their distribution center to consoles (and other devices) they're going to need a solid OS with lots of support, and they're going to need to run their games natively. With Valve and Unity (and others) starting to push for Linux support, more games will be ported, and GPU driver vendors will have more incentive to support the platform more in-turn. Using Wine is perfectly fine. If it runs good, it runs good, but that's never going to be the case in all situations with Wine unless more support is given to the whole systems, so at that point it's better to just support thing more directly (natively).

    Besides, porting to Linux isn't even hard to do. Even if you're engine is directly using Direct3D calls (which is big mistake in today's multi-platform environment), it's easy enough to wrap OpenGL calls up a neat little DirectX box as a drop-in replacement (same for the other APIs). With Steam on Linux and more major Game Engines gaining Linux support developers will starting see Linux as another real source of revenue.

  6. #6
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    Wine is only good enough for older software that would never get ported to Linux. But for new software, designing and writing code with platform independence in mind from start is a better software engineering practice.

    This said, if Valve wants to be successful in their Linux push, they should integrate Wine into Steam to run older games that won't get ported. I have Windows games in my Steam library that I have to run using the windows version of Steam on wine.
    They should test popular windows only games against a specific version of Wine included with the Linux version of Steam and enable running windows games that are proven to work good enough (gold) with a wineprefix that works for that specific game. That's a ton of work though and only an interim solution.

  7. #7

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    My thoughts on it as well: http://www.gamingonlinux.com/article...ne-gaming.1705 which comes from experience of actually using Wine to try to game.

  8. #8
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    What a completely fail-tastic comment - from someone who should know what they are talking about!

    I challenge Mr Carmack!! How to do you measure the popularity of your Linux ports - when you can't buy a Linux-only version of the games!! It's a circular argument...

    Wine will never replace native gaming...
    1) It runs in user space - low FPS and frequent stuttering (read "pause") is unacceptable to any gamer
    2) Instability - simply put games can crash Wine (my current experience with BMS, look at Crysis - needs a patch just to run)
    2) To many modern games have sophisticated DRM/online checks that will never be fixed (e.g. Punkbuster, etc.)
    3) Wine updates maybe a problem - but even more problematical can be updates to the games themselves!

    Don't get me wrong I do my bit to support the Wine project... It's lovely to see games like S.T.A.L.K.E.R. running on top of ARCH, etc. - but you need an order of magnitude faster system (i.e. at least 2 Nvidia GPU generations), than Windows 7 would need, just to run the games at the same FPS.

    Has Mr Carmack actually spent any time using any FPS games on Wine?? Me thinks not...

  9. #9
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    This Carmack fellow seems to have his head up his ass.

    When it comes to technology, you can never accurately speculate how well something might do today based on the past. Technology advances quite quickly, just look at Linux and the video drivers. Around 3 years ago, I was unable to get Linux and my dual display ATI card to work properly. 1 year later everything worked and since then performance has continued to improve to where I don't use Windows anymore.

    With regards to Wine, the only game that has ever worked for me with out much FPS loss is Sid Meiers Railroads. WoW has always been around 7fps and other games like L4D are completely unplayable. Lets also not forget how some companies, namely Blizzard, have banned players because they misinterrepted their playing through Wine as cheating.

  10. #10

    Default Flipside

    Clearly developers are going about this the wrong way. They should be writing for Linux and making Windows users use andLinux to run the games. Nobody would complain about that solution.

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