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Thread: John Carmack Shares More Of His Linux Views

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    Default John Carmack Shares More Of His Linux Views

    Phoronix: John Carmack Shares More Of His Linux Views

    John Carmack, the co-founder of id Software that's widely known through gaming circles due to his remarkable work on developing Doom and Quake and other titles, sparked some controversy earlier this week when he promoted Wine for Linux gaming over native Linux game ports. He's now provided some additional clarification and thoughts...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTI5NTA

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    What's all the hassle? M$ market share is already down to ~70% in Switzerland and continues to fall...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike4 View Post
    What's all the hassle? M$ market share is already down to ~70% in Switzerland and continues to fall...
    From where do you have this number??

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike4 View Post
    What's all the hassle? M$ market share is already down to ~70% in Switzerland and continues to fall...
    So that's still a massive majority then...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbamber85 View Post
    So that's still a massive majority then...
    Not in mobile. The largest increasing market for games is mobile right now. What's MS's marketshare in that? 2.4 %. Using Direct X today just doesn't make a lot of sense if you want to port to mobile devices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    Microsoft is so last decade. They are dead. Most devs should focus on building on linux first and then maybe porting to windows. Hell even Microsoft thinks of porting office to linux...
    Not because Linux would yet be the more lucrative market, but simply because designing for linux equals to following best coding practice guidelines.

    Also, porting is unnecessary. Cross platform compatibility comes almost for free if you design the program wisely from the get-go. This is why i tend to agree with carmack on this issue. Use WINE for current titles, design next-gen titles to be crossplatform - forget porting old shit that was designed in a darker age.
    Last edited by varikonniemi; 02-06-2013 at 11:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by varikonniemi View Post
    Not because Linux would yet be the more lucrative market, but simply because designing for linux equals to following best coding practice guidelines.
    If and whwn Linux gets high uality modern APIs and tools,maybe. it's currently way easier and less frustrating to get a modern renderer up snd running using Microsoft's APIs and tools. As a developer with a budget and timeline, that matters. The only thing Linux has which Windows is missing is Valgrind. Meanwhile, Linux is completely lacking in high quality GPU debugging tool, and OpenGL/OpenAL are simple awful APIs. OpenGL has an excuse in that it is ancient; OpenAL has none, it was just designed by morons who copied OpenGL. Which is why so few real games use OpenAl directly and pay for fmod or wwyse, and why game devs prefer D3D9/11 over GL. Better APIs save time and money, as do better tools.

    With OpenGL, if your renderer doesn't work, good luck figuring out why. Way easier to get everything working on D3D/Windows and port after you know your game is corect and works.

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    Valve already demonstrated how hopelessly poor windows/d3d is as a 1st class gaming platform when source runs much faster on Linux/ogl than it does after years of optimizing for win/d3d. You cannot have the cake and eat it too. Choose either simplicity or quality.
    Last edited by varikonniemi; 02-06-2013 at 12:18 PM.

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    - Specifically about Direct3D translating: "Translating from D3D to OpenGL would involve more inefficiencies, but figuring out exactly what the difficulties are and making some form of “D3D interop” extension for OpenGL to smooth it out is a lot easier than making dozens of completely refactored, high performance native ports."
    I'm fairly sure valve is already using some sort of d3d > opengl translation layer for their ports (I recall reading that somewhere)

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    Quote Originally Posted by elanthis View Post
    If and whwn Linux gets high uality modern APIs
    don't tell me you call windows apis anything near of high quality and modern!

    .net in its latest version is the first api wrapper from microsoft that SOME WHAT managed to provide something half way usefull.

    i've coded for over 20 years, most of my paid stuff for windows and it is ALWAYS a BIG relief when i don't have to code anything involving micorsoft api's. biggest bullshit ever designed!

    but sure, when people grow up and get educated in colleges and universities only with such stupid things they got used to and like most people think the things they already know are the best.

    if i weren't payed so well for coding for the windows plattform i wouldn't evet do it again.

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