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Thread: BSDs Struggle With Open-Source Graphics Drivers

  1. #111
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    Jan 2013
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    There are people who complain, "the GPL is against freedom and totalitarian, because the GPL doesn't allow people to do whatever with the code! That's not real freedom!"

    There are also people who argue, that "the laws that forbid slavery are against freedom and totalitarian, because these laws don't allow people to do whatever they want to other people! That's not real freedom!"

    Both are equally right. Yes, sometimes we need laws that proximately limit someone's freedom to do some thing, in order to ultimately guarantee more freedom for more people. For example: In order to give people the freedom to not be exploited, we have laws that limit the freedom to enslave others. In order to give people the freedom to walk on the streets without getting assaulted, we have laws that limit the freedom to assault others. And the GPL works the same way. In order to grant the user of the software the four freedoms, it limits the freedoms of whoever wants to fork the software or contribute to it's development.

    The BSD license on the other hand says "we don't want to limit anyone's freedom", so they ultimately end up ignoring everyone's freedom. What would happen if laws worked the same way as the BSD license? There would be no laws against slavery, because that would be limiting the freedom of the slaveowners. There would be no laws against assault, because that would be limiting the freedom to assault whoever you want. Thus, you would not have the freedom to not be exploited, nor would you have the freedom to walk on the streets unharmed.

  2. #112
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    Jul 2009
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    351

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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    There are people who complain, "the GPL is against freedom and totalitarian, because the GPL doesn't allow people to do whatever with the code! That's not real freedom!"

    There are also people who argue, that "the laws that forbid slavery are against freedom and totalitarian, because these laws don't allow people to do whatever they want to other people! That's not real freedom!"

    Both are equally right. Yes, sometimes we need laws that proximately limit someone's freedom to do some thing, in order to ultimately guarantee more freedom for more people. For example: In order to give people the freedom to not be exploited, we have laws that limit the freedom to enslave others. In order to give people the freedom to walk on the streets without getting assaulted, we have laws that limit the freedom to assault others. And the GPL works the same way. In order to grant the user of the software the four freedoms, it limits the freedoms of whoever wants to fork the software or contribute to it's development.

    The BSD license on the other hand says "we don't want to limit anyone's freedom", so they ultimately end up ignoring everyone's freedom. What would happen if laws worked the same way as the BSD license? There would be no laws against slavery, because that would be limiting the freedom of the slaveowners. There would be no laws against assault, because that would be limiting the freedom to assault whoever you want. Thus, you would not have the freedom to not be exploited, nor would you have the freedom to walk on the streets unharmed.
    All those people who moan and complain about Apple and what has happened to their products, you can point your finger right square at the BSD license and say, "SEE??? This is what you get when you put the BSD license on your code. Someone else will take it and polish it and put it in their deus ex machina and take all the credit, and leave you with nothing other than the bitter knowledge that you helped create the new Frankenstein monster.

  3. #113
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    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by frantaylor View Post
    All those people who moan and complain about Apple and what has happened to their products, you can point your finger right square at the BSD license and say, "SEE??? This is what you get when you put the BSD license on your code. Someone else will take it and polish it and put it in their deus ex machina and take all the credit, and leave you with nothing other than the bitter knowledge that you helped create the new Frankenstein monster.
    GPL people are complaining about Apple taking BSD code. You know some people don't have problem with that (their code will stay open).
    Maybe if TCP/IP wouldn't be BSD licensed, Microsoft would implement different protocol.

    As a user I don't have any problem using BSD, GPL or any other open source licensed software.
    But as programer I prefer BSD license in most cases (libraries and small utilites), because is simpler and more compatible.

    Nobody forces you to release your code under BSD license or GPL.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by frantaylor View Post
    I have in front of me at the moment, a copy of the famous "Chine Nual", dated 1984. The preface to this document is the VERY FIRST PUBLIC MENTION of the gnu project:

    "I believe that the commercialization of computer software has harmed the spirit which enabled such systems to be developed. Now I am attempting to build a software-sharing movement to revive that spirit from near oblivion"

    WHAT is the "spirit" that develops systems??? It is RESEARCH! HELLO! What else is it?

    and DO YOU SEE YOUR ERROR? You see GNU as a software project. It's NOT a software project. It's a project to invigorate software design. It's a project to get people thinking, to stir their brain cells and be better. YOU think it's about the software.

    And by the way, WHAT DO YOU THINK HURD IS FOR, ANYWAY?? Do you REALLY think the developers have any intention of "shipping a software product"??? Hurd is a learning experience, it's a RESEARCH PROJECT, it's a sandbox for new ideas and experiments. It spins off ideas like FUSE that get integrated into other things.
    Obviously we have very different definitions of "research". The HURD is based on Mach, WHICH WAS A RESEARCH SYSTEM. Plan 9, MINIX, L4, Inferno, Amoeba... these are all research systems. The HURD does not, according to my notion of research, belong to this group. So no, the "spirit" of those systems (GNU) is NOT RESEARCH.

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