Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir

[Sverro2]

Nothing to surprise.
I've found Canonical is just an Apple-wannabe for a while.

But it will never become another Apple because it has never invested as many human resources as Apple had.
To get a better UI, Apple replaced X server many years ago. But what about Canonical? It just adopted compiz to attract users with the fancy but useless graphics.

Now they are gonna change that, and you're still not happy

[Prescience500]

(I do agree with your sentiment - gratuitous differences, not being a member of the community, NIH, CLA etc really are making Ubuntu undesirable.)

Out of curiosity what distributions do you push people to? As far as I can tell Ubuntu is the least worst along various dimensions such as freshness (new package versions but not too bleeding edge), not requiring assembly (arch, gentoo), support (instructions and packages almost always exist), release cycles (fedora seems to have issues) and ability for anyone from beginners to the experienced to get going.

Depends on the person. I usually, direct them the second newest Fedora KDE version (that way it's stable and not so bleeding edge anymore). Since they're usually friends or family, I can fill in all of the "not Ubuntu" gaps myself in the beginning with RPMfusion and what not. I also get them all the software they'll need and briefly customize it to their preferences. None of them are advanced enough to mess with 3rd party repos so it's not a big deal if Fedora doesn't have a large repo ecosystem.

[elanthis]

To get a better UI, Apple replaced X server many years ago.

Apple didn't "replace" X. They never used it to start with.

They had their PostScript compositor in OS X 10.0, and in OS 9 and earlier they used a custom kernel windowing system, like older Windows (modern Windows offloads some work to the userspace dwm.exe; most of the windowing system, like input and so on, are still in the kernel).

No version of X can run natively on any version of upstream Mac OS except as a proxy to the native windowing system.

[Pawlerson]

The main point is Canonical didn't complain at all about Wayland, didn't contribute, didn't ask questions, didn't propose solutions, didn't object to anything, just sat there quiet and then bang - they say Wayland sucks and they "have" to use their own solution. Anyone non-brain damaged knows it's not about Wayland, it's about the NIH syndrome, and more importantly, the fact that Canonical can't control it.

And gnome developers don't suffer from the NIH syndrome? Unity for example, was available before gnome shell.

[dee.]

On Ubuntu I use these instructions to get rid of all the Ubuntu specific stuff and get a more genuine Gnome experience. If that approach doesn't work in 13.04 then I will definitely quite Ubuntu, almost certainly for Arch. The only remaining problem is why to recommend to new users since I still don't have a better answer than Ubuntu.

I'd recommend Mint, it's just as easy to install as Ubuntu and has far less problems.

[Pawlerson]

Huh? What is happening to Ubuntu? Personally lost interest in it years ago, but still glad it promotes Linux (on the desktop), but now? This is the end, in a few years it'll be the bastard child of Linux, and then into oblivion like all the rest of once popular desktop distros... Google can pull stuff like this off with Android, because they are freaking Google, but Mr. Shuttleworth must be delusional if he thinks Canonical can do the same. Until then all they do is damage the ecosystem. Shame...

I wonder how did you get into such strange conclusions? Ubuntu is the most popular distribution and Ubuntu having X replacement that is supported by proprietary drivers will become even more popular. If something will end it's gnome shell and fedora/red hat leadership in dictating Linux future. And this is good, because they have no clue about desktops.

[asdx]

And to add, this is a snippiet of a discussion that went down on the #Wayland IRC that was posted.
http://pastebin.com/KjRm3be1

RAOF is a fucking idiot.

[Pawlerson]

True. If Ubuntu goes completely down the toilet I'll probably end up going back to Windows or maybe moving over to OS X. There really is no compelling Linux desktop alternative for me at this time.

There's no way it will go down. They have Valve behind them and it seems MIR will be supported by proprietary drivers which isn't so sure about Wayland. I didn't like Ubuntu to use SurfaceFlinger in cost of Wayland, but I MIR has my full support.

[Pawlerson]

For the anti-BSD trolls:
This is the first display server I know of to be licensed as (L)GPL3. I doubt it will be popular anywhere outside Linux (there, did I irritate anyone yet?) and Hurd.


...Meanwhile, I'm sticking with X11, and sysvinit (well, and bb init!).

Nobody cares about bsd crap here. There are no anti-bsd trolls here, but only bsd trolls. Linux users have no reasons to troll about bsd which is meaningless to us.

[Pawlerson]

Nothing to surprise.
I've found Canonical is just an Apple-wannabe for a while.

But it will never become another Apple because it has never invested as many human resources as Apple had.
To get a better UI, Apple replaced X server many years ago. But what about Canonical? It just adopted compiz to attract users with the fancy but useless graphics.

And even with X Ubuntu is way faster than OS X. Furthermore, Ubuntu is using Linux kernel rather some crap and it seems you're an only one who doesn't see Apple's OS X will be dead in the near future.