Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir

[daniels]

RAOF is a fucking idiot.

No, he's not.

[a user]

Even if it's true (they're more mature) - what is easier, to write your own display server or join forces with the rest of the players behind Wayland and get those companies to improve their drivers? Me thinks the latter is the clearly better option.

in my experience the first is more often the esier one. forgot the many complaints about slow reaction from the devs, not incorporating upstream suggestions? we all know how slow and stubborn such projects can react.

but i do not know what is in this particular case, though. my statement is meant in general, not saying that it is actually the case with the wayland project. joining forces only works if you can really join. but in reality not all are allowed to really join.

[AdamW]

I was developing an Apache module, along with other software. It wouldn't work with no apparent explanation as to why. Eventually I'd find a clue, address it and try again. This would happen several times. I didn't want to disable selinux since then everyone I gave the module to would also have to do so, which is clearly the wrong thing. The issue wasn't the existence of selinux, but rather that diagnosing something you wanted to happen and didn't was extremely tedious.

You may have found http://linux.die.net/man/8/httpd_selinux useful. That's what I use for a reference when I'm bashing something to work on my web server. SELinux really *is* a good thing to have on server boxes, once you figure out how to set things up.

[AdamW]

And gnome developers don't suffer from the NIH syndrome? Unity for example, was available before gnome shell.

Rubbish. Not even close.

"Unity debuted in the netbook edition of Ubuntu 10.10." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unity_...environment%29

* Mon Aug 10 2009 Owen Taylor <otaylor@redhat.com> - 2.27.0-1
- Initial version

- gnome-shell changelog.

GNOME 3.0's release was after Unity's, but Shell was widely known about and available as a preview long before Unity. Several distros had shell packages long before GNOME 3.0 came out.

[grotgrot]

SELinux really *is* a good thing to have on server boxes, once you figure out how to set things up.

I agree which is why I didn't disable it. I was doing this work quite a few years ago. I think back then nothing was logged if there was an SElinux violation which is what made life so much harder. Similar things happen on Ubuntu today - you can't strace a random process, but at least you get an immediate message telling you what happened and how to fix it. And you get apparmor on Ubuntu, and I wish they had picked selinux instead. (Yet another reason to move.)

[nej_simon]

in my experience the first is more often the esier one. forgot the many complaints about slow reaction from the devs, not incorporating upstream suggestions? we all know how slow and stubborn such projects can react.

but i do not know what is in this particular case, though. my statement is meant in general, not saying that it is actually the case with the wayland project. joining forces only works if you can really join. but in reality not all are allowed to really join.

In this case they didn't even try to contribute to or influence the wayland project. If they had and failed I would have understood why they wanted to roll their own display server.

[BO$$]

C'mon admit it! The real men entered the room and the Wayland kids got scattered. Wayland kept the news headline for so many years and hasn't come up with anything usable for years. It might as well be called vaporware. Now when a real company with real money attacks the issue, instead of saying thank you, you scold them. Working with wayland? Why? They can't make up their minds and can't come up with shit. They haven't been for years. Tell me which one of you uses wayland huh? Nobody? Could it be that it doesn't work and all their beautiful design is shit?

This is how linux has always been. Mediocre until a company that works for profit takes it and transforms it into something usable for the masses. Look at android and Ubuntu. Wayland never had a chance.

[89c51]

No, he's not.

From what i understand -from the comments of many seasoned devs- they created something that is quite similar to WL but different enough to be incompatible with the whole stack for reasons that dont hold any water. Plus they did not even talked privately to any WL devs before they start it in order to see if WL could fit their usecases.

Someone wouldn't describe the above as smart would he?

[giselher]

From what i understand -from the comments of many seasoned devs- they created something that is quite similar to WL but different enough to be incompatible with the whole stack for reasons that dont hold any water. Plus they did not even talked privately to any WL devs before they start it in order to see if WL could fit their usecases.

Someone wouldn't describe the above as smart would he?

Maybe he had no say in the decision and it is only logical to try to defend your employers decisions.

[funkSTAR]

And gnome developers don't suffer from the NIH syndrome? Unity for example, was available before gnome shell.

It is Canonical suffering from NCLAH. Unity was a clever way to CLA the desktop UI. At tomorrows Ubuntu it is easier to point out the few component NOT suffering from CLA than the other way around. Adding an android kernel/driver scheme and you have your self a complete disaster.

It is quite scary.