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Thread: Upstream X/Wayland Developers Bash Canonical, Mir

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by grotgrot View Post
    I didn't, but browsing through doesn't seem to show that many packages. It looks like Debian (and hence Ubuntu) has about double the number of packages as standard. Ubuntu's PPAs fill in any missing gaps very well. The Fedora package list is definitely more complete than when I've looked in the past.



    I was developing an Apache module, along with other software. It wouldn't work with no apparent explanation as to why. Eventually I'd find a clue, address it and try again. This would happen several times. I didn't want to disable selinux since then everyone I gave the module to would also have to do so, which is clearly the wrong thing. The issue wasn't the existence of selinux, but rather that diagnosing something you wanted to happen and didn't was extremely tedious.



    The installation docs are astonishingly bad (this page) especially compared to the Gentoo ones, or the convenience of a gui/auto-detection. Of course installs are so rare that it doesn't matter for most people. I am seeing the Arch wiki showing up in searches a lot more, like Gentoo used to (eg the arch page for btrfs is my 4th result for that term). Part of my problem is that the arch netboot kernel hangs in VirtualBox during boot most of the time.

    On Ubuntu I use these instructions to get rid of all the Ubuntu specific stuff and get a more genuine Gnome experience. If that approach doesn't work in 13.04 then I will definitely quite Ubuntu, almost certainly for Arch. The only remaining problem is why to recommend to new users since I still don't have a better answer than Ubuntu.
    That's not the full installation guide, it's a summary. The thorough in-depth guide is the Beginners' Guide, the other one is for people who have already installed Arch and just want a quick reference (as explained on the main page). There's no bug report for any issues with the install media in VirtualBox, so it must work fine (for you too, otherwise you would have reported it - right? :P).
    Last edited by strcat; 03-05-2013 at 07:27 AM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    Wanna bet that Mir will be released sooner than wayland? And that it will be incorporated in a linux distro (Ubuntu) faster than wayland? And that more users will use Mir than Wayland just because Ubuntu will use it and Ubuntu is the most popular distro? As I said before, Intel is just desperate since they lose everything to ARM in the smartphone space. That is why they finance wayland for now. They hope that it will make it easier for them to move into the mobile space and even make them sell a chip or two.
    wayland and weston are already released and at version 1.0.5.
    Also wayland and weston are in the official archlinux repos. They also enabled the gtk wayland backend in archlinux.

    They are still waiting for an official qt5-qtwayland release to also enable qt5 support on wayland.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sverro2 View Post
    Now they are gonna change that, and you're still not happy
    Why? My prediction has been proofed to be right
    Quote Originally Posted by Pawlerson View Post
    And even with X Ubuntu is way faster than OS X. Furthermore, Ubuntu is using Linux kernel rather some crap and it seems you're an only one who doesn't see Apple's OS X will be dead in the near future.
    ... and Mac will move to use iOS, or start to use FreeBSD?
    I can't see how this would happen.

    Never forget workstation users. If someone did, he/she will be missing in the so-called "Post-PC" age.
    Apple clearly knows about this while MS seems not.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    Wanna bet that Mir will be released sooner than wayland? And that it will be incorporated in a linux distro (Ubuntu) faster than wayland? And that more users will use Mir than Wayland just because Ubuntu will use it and Ubuntu is the most popular distro? As I said before, Intel is just desperate since they lose everything to ARM in the smartphone space. That is why they finance wayland for now. They hope that it will make it easier for them to move into the mobile space and even make them sell a chip or two.
    A15 beats atom perfectly on power consumption.

    Nice shoot ARM! Please continue like this and you can compete with Xeon in your next architecture.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    Wanna bet that Mir will be released sooner than wayland? And that it will be incorporated in a linux distro (Ubuntu) faster than wayland? And that more users will use Mir than Wayland just because Ubuntu will use it and Ubuntu is the most popular distro? As I said before, Intel is just desperate since they lose everything to ARM in the smartphone space. That is why they finance wayland for now. They hope that it will make it easier for them to move into the mobile space and even make them sell a chip or two.
    Why would intel want to move in to the mobile space when the markets they already dominate are way more profitable for them? Why compete with all of the 3 dozen ARM manufacturers for selling $5 mobile SoCs when they can sell $2000 server CPUs with pretty much no disruption? The competition on the ARM market is good for the end user, but it's not good for a chip maker that is used to running a de-facto monopoly.

    Even on the desktop intel still has no real competition, apart from AMD which they can keep in line because AMD uses intel's arch. This will likely stay this way at least until ARMv8. (neat trivia: there are already 64-bit ARMv8 CPUs on the market, but only for servers and only one manufacturer makes them).

    So, my dear Shuttleworth fanboi, intel has nothing to be desperate about (for now). And they sure as hell have more money and resources than Canonical.

  6. #66
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    Default The NIH cartel has spoken.

    How amusing.

    It is always the same story isn't it. Whenever anyone else makes more noise than the usual suspects, they have to be pounced. One could cynically call them the NIH cartel. They have the sole monopoly on NIHing anything, and are the only ones allowed to make big statements and make noise, and big promises they cannot hold. All others will be silenced and eliminated

  7. #67
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    Default double bullshit

    ...and it couldn't end without Poettering being a douche bag, taking a shit unto one of the greatest space constructions ever made just for having the same name: calling it a "space toilet" and implying, that deorbiting it into ocean somehow were a failure (someone, please, tell that dipshit, that this is what's always done to obsolete Earth-orbiting devices).

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnc View Post
    Yup. The writing was on the wall a year or two ago.

    MS shot itself in the foot with Win8 but the Linux community blew off all its arms and legs in the meantime.
    If Microsoft makes Cinnamon like desktop, and introduces new, intuitive, easy and automated ways to install apps (ms store or some more convenient way to install like simply dragging in and out of /Applications like on OSX) they would probably win. Heck, even Id go back to windows.

    But as long as windows experience is garbage Linux Desktop still has a chance. And I support Canonical in their attempt to be kinda like Apple, an enterprise, to partner up with manufacturers of hardware and big software companies. Because that is the only way for Linux Desktop to grow out of just us who are big fans to more people.
    Linux Desktop lacks proprietary professional software, which will come with more standardized stack and corporate backing.

    Because right now, if you are game developer/gamer, Linux is not for you. If you are professional in audio/video industry, Linux is not for you. If you are ______ professional, relying on professional corporate proprietary software to do your work, Linux is not for you. Don't slap around with Wine! Wine can only do so much. Running VM? Why would you RUN VM on machine, where most of your time you spend in VM itself?

    Notice how I am only referring to GNU/Linux for Desktop experience here, which is the most problematic area right now. Server space for instance is clear win for GNU/Linux, Id never ever want to use osx or microsoft crap for that.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 89c51 View Post
    From what i understand -from the comments of many seasoned devs- they created something that is quite similar to WL but different enough to be incompatible with the whole stack for reasons that dont hold any water. Plus they did not even talked privately to any WL devs before they start it in order to see if WL could fit their usecases.

    Someone wouldn't describe the above as smart would he?
    RAOF didn't create it, and I wouldn't describe his technical skills or general intellect as approaching idiocy. You can see that I don't like the whole situation, but I wouldn't be abusing any of the developers involved.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    But that does not change the fact that what they are doing is likely to be destructive. And just because someone has the right to does not give them the right not to be criticized for it. So can we drop this line now?
    Would you elaborate on how this is "destructive"? As far as I can tell, the only one who loses here is RedHat and various proponents of a RedHat-based monoculture. RedHat took advantage of open source software to form the basis of their company, adopting various projects as their own. That enabled Redhat to sell support contracts as the company that lead development of the software, which has been very profitable for them. Now that organizations have decided to do the same, RedHat's supporters are crying foul.

    RedHat should never have published open source software if they expected to dictate how the source code is used. Various BSD people accepted that a long time ago, which is why they make no attempt to dictate how their software is used. On the other hand, Redhat and their supporters seem to have mistaken the GPL as a means to establish their company as the Microsoft of open source, but things do not work that way. RedHat has praised the benefits of open source software for years. Now that others are following suit, it is time to accept that no organization can has exert monopoly control over how open source software is developed and used.

    With that said, those that want a monoculture to exist in open source software should establish it through merit and not petty harassment.

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