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Thread: Suggest Ubuntu Alternative

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    yes its the half truth, for apt that is maybe right, but not for aptitude. it gives you different solutions too.
    in theory you could also pin packages in apt, to not use the newest packages from oem or so, but I never got that working when I tried it ^^




    Ubuntus list of evilness is just to long now.

    the worst thing they did was:

    1. spyware in default installation/config
    then
    2. replacing the music store in that music app and steal basicly money from them (yes its legal what they done their but not moralic)
    3. dont send patches to upstream
    4. inhouse developments that get released last day so the other distros can only integrate it later
    5. they used nonfree lisenses on several stuff like their launchpad,
    6. and still ubuntu-one server part is proprietary
    7. their communications were horrific, letting other people work on stuff and 2 months for release they say, we desided to not use that stuff you exclusivly developed for ubuntu, of that poor qt-guy.
    8. they flamed against wayland with lies or at least not the truth
    9. they do their MIR thing.
    10. even if you think that moralicly thats all ok, but having 20 own solutions that only use ubuntu will become a disaster for them, if no other distributions use that, its less likely that security holes get fixed or found.
    11. unity, this move in that timeframe even fragmented the gnome-project even more, and that even with a unready solution, unity was 1-2 years buggier and slower than gnome-shell, they could have switched when they at least would have been at the same level, now they jump around between gtk, qt, compiz and back and forth they cant desite what they want.
    12. exclusiv ubuntu amd or nvidia drivers, thats more of their we fight other distro thing, not thinking of a community
    13. firefox thing, they could have switched to iceweasal they desided to go the more unfree route here
    14. "we require CLA everywhere", ie can turn all into closed source sure people will search for alternative.


    its just to much, they seperate themselves. I switch to arch linux and my relatives will switch to fedora, because they deliver maybe what made ubuntu a great distribution - the suckiness even from the beginning, a gnome-distribution.

    now they have something qt-gnomeish bastard thing with android drivers. half qt, half gnome half android.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    Why do you care about those points? Just politics?
    Yes, politics. Remember USA bombarding Iraq? Bush lied and A LOT of people die. That was because of just politics.

    I donīt want for Canonical to easily close everything down, by changing the license from GPL to EULA, using lies as arguments. CLA allows that. Point me to equivalent of KDE Free Qt Foundation within Ubuntu please, that has a legally binding agreement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gps4l View Post
    I would like add somethings.

    Do you know that the deal between novell and ms, forced ms to sell Linux ?

    SUSE comes from openSUSE, not the other way round.

    So I could argue that openSUSE, has nothing to do with that deal.
    I know that MS purchased Novell, by moneytransfer via CPTN - Attachmate with the single goal to gather all Novell patents, which were later used to attack Android and Linux today.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    yes its the half truth, for apt that is maybe right, but not for aptitude. it gives you different solutions too.
    in theory you could also pin packages in apt, to not use the newest packages from oem or so, but I never got that working when I tried it ^^
    No, I donīt think APT can do that. For example:
    One adds disk monitoring applet to XFCE. Possible file change monitors are gamin and fam. Another:
    One adds KDE and Phonon, the backends possible are Gstreamer and Xine. Etc.
    To my knowledge, APT will blindly offer for install one of them.

    One can of course, let APT resolve the packages, but then immediately manually go to equivalents and choose to install them.
    Due to that they are not compatible to be used at same time (at least gamin/fam), APT/Synaptic will smartly remove marking from one and put them on another.

    In OpenSUSE/Mageia, zypper will explicitly offer a choice between them. Thats the difference.
    Last edited by brosis; 05-01-2013 at 05:24 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    Ubuntus list of evilness is just to long now.

    the worst thing they did was:

    1. spyware in default installation/config
    then
    2. replacing the music store in that music app and steal basicly money from them (yes its legal what they done their but not moralic)
    3. dont send patches to upstream
    4. inhouse developments that get released last day so the other distros can only integrate it later
    5. they used nonfree lisenses on several stuff like their launchpad,
    6. and still ubuntu-one server part is proprietary
    7. their communications were horrific, letting other people work on stuff and 2 months for release they say, we desided to not use that stuff you exclusivly developed for ubuntu, of that poor qt-guy.
    8. they flamed against wayland with lies or at least not the truth
    9. they do their MIR thing.
    10. even if you think that moralicly thats all ok, but having 20 own solutions that only use ubuntu will become a disaster for them, if no other distributions use that, its less likely that security holes get fixed or found.
    11. unity, this move in that timeframe even fragmented the gnome-project even more, and that even with a unready solution, unity was 1-2 years buggier and slower than gnome-shell, they could have switched when they at least would have been at the same level, now they jump around between gtk, qt, compiz and back and forth they cant desite what they want.
    12. exclusiv ubuntu amd or nvidia drivers, thats more of their we fight other distro thing, not thinking of a community
    13. firefox thing, they could have switched to iceweasal they desided to go the more unfree route here
    14. "we require CLA everywhere", ie can turn all into closed source sure people will search for alternative.

    its just to much, they seperate themselves. I switch to arch linux and my relatives will switch to fedora, because they deliver maybe what made ubuntu a great distribution - the suckiness even from the beginning, a gnome-distribution.
    now they have something qt-gnomeish bastard thing with android drivers. half qt, half gnome half android.
    Well, I donīt think (IMHO) these "evils" are really "evils", they are more "badboy"s.
    1. I think you mean Amazon search deal, thats true, although they explicitly placed "Legal Advice" button right into Dash. One canīt miss it when opening Dash for first time. Personally, I think its lame and useless, because I buy from Amazon from time-to-time anyway, so why canīt Amazon just track User Agent = Ubuntu and "analyse my behavior" or whatever that stone-age theory was.

    2. I donīt use any music stores, due to "music store"=DRM. DRM = loss of music in a blink of an eye. Look at ms zune music shop, or whatever that thing was called. So, IMHO, that "addition" was useless.

    3. I think launchpad is open to everyone, but I give you +1 because proactive handling is better than passive.

    4. I think its their option what they do with their money. Thats not evil in slightest. For example, consider companies such as mikrotik, that blindly build upon Linux, but everything is proprietary. That includes "copyprotection", license keys etc garbage.

    5. Yet they released them later as open software. I donīt think its neccessary evil, unless it becomes a rule, see 4 of my opinion.

    6. Yeah, thats because they make money with that, that is surely +1 to your point. They could have done that a lot better like Red Hat (no puns, no sarcasm).

    7. +1

    8. & 9. They just wanted full control over vital part for their policy to run on several platforms, thatīs understandable, although very stupid. Should have forked if necessary. And they lied about reasons. Thats 2x +1

    10. +1

    11. +1, one of the reasons I migrate from Ubuntu. I personally experienced how inefficient and buggy, within own specifications, Unity is. A LOT of what is installed is straight USELESS, a LOT is simply wrong, and MUCH is missing.

    12. I rely on opensource drivers, they are usable now, so that doesnīt touch me.

    13. No from me here. First, Mozilla protects "Firefox" brand. Builds that are not official, canīt be called "Firefox". Because when stuff starts breaking, they donīt want to associate with that. Thats what I fully understand. Debian wanted to modify Firefox, since I fully understand the reason for renaming, I think its right choice for both Mozilla and Debian. So, there should be Firefox and Iceweasel present, regardless who is considered default. People should decide.

    14. +1 to that.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    Well, I donīt think (IMHO) these "evils" are really "evils", they are more "badboy"s.
    1. I think you mean Amazon search deal, thats true, although they explicitly placed "Legal Advice" button right into Dash. One canīt miss it when opening Dash for first time. Personally, I think its lame and useless, because I buy from Amazon from time-to-time anyway, so why canīt Amazon just track User Agent = Ubuntu and "analyse my behavior" or whatever that stone-age theory was.

    2. I donīt use any music stores, due to "music store"=DRM. DRM = loss of music in a blink of an eye. Look at ms zune music shop, or whatever that thing was called. So, IMHO, that "addition" was useless.

    3. I think launchpad is open to everyone, but I give you +1 because proactive handling is better than passive.

    4. I think its their option what they do with their money. Thats not evil in slightest. For example, consider companies such as mikrotik, that blindly build upon Linux, but everything is proprietary. That includes "copyprotection", license keys etc garbage.

    5. Yet they released them later as open software. I donīt think its neccessary evil, unless it becomes a rule, see 4 of my opinion.

    6. Yeah, thats because they make money with that, that is surely +1 to your point. They could have done that a lot better like Red Hat (no puns, no sarcasm).

    ....

    11. +1, one of the reasons I migrate from Ubuntu. I personally experienced how inefficient and buggy, within own specifications, Unity is. A LOT of what is installed is straight USELESS, a LOT is simply wrong, and MUCH is missing.

    12. I rely on opensource drivers, they are usable now, so that doesnīt touch me.

    13. No from me here. First, Mozilla protects "Firefox" brand. Builds that are not official, canīt be called "Firefox". Because when stuff starts breaking, they donīt want to associate with that. Thats what I fully understand. Debian wanted to modify Firefox, since I fully understand the reason for renaming, I think its right choice for both Mozilla and Debian. So, there should be Firefox and Iceweasel present, regardless who is considered default. People should decide.
    1. actually point 1 is the most important one, adding spyware to the default installation is the biggest disrespekt to the users, yes it did get critisised so everybody knows that now, but not everybody reads all the linux news all the time. and maybe its no big deal for you but I dont use facebook, I try to get less dependend from google, and specialy hate amazon, we had a big scandal in germany about them, they did basicly have a nazi security to watch the workers from other countries. I dont trust them with data from me.

    2. again its more about their mindset, yes yes with ppas and stuff you can make every distro like what you want. but the gap between upstream and ubuntu gets bigger and bigger, today I have to manage a gnome-ppa, tomorow I need a wayland ppa and so on. The work needed to get from a standard installation to what you want gets bigger and bigger, so why not install as example a fedora with a nice clean gnome-shell installed without spyware and stuff.

    3. what do you mean its open to... if you use it on their servers? yes, ubuntu is here like our bio/organic sign on our food, its the minimal thats allowed not 1% more. So they want to sell their product or have other advantages with using opensource because they dont have to develop everything by them selv, but its only a tool they dont give a shit about freedom of users or something like that.

    4. you can call it bad boy or evil, I dont see the big difference with that. of course people care different about freedom or opoeness or stuff like that, I care much, not that much that I use ututo over lets say fedora or arch linux, I am willing to make some compromises, but ubuntu goes way to far from me.
    It wasnt that I was just till 6 months ago extremly happy with ubuntu like I told with the firefox example their did stuff happen, which made me wanna migrate to a other distribution earlier, but the alternatives back then werent even that good that days, and I wanted not take the pain of a migration.
    So I stayed on ubuntu because of lazyness, not because I liked what happend. But they always make it even worse and worse and wordse.

    5. again it shows their mindset, its not neccessary evil, but it fits in the picture of the other stuff, maybe its reasonable for a company, but if thats true maybe using a community only driven distro like arch linux is the better choice. (yes of course some 3rd party companies maybe help their too, but they have no power on that distro)

    12. me not too, but its a bit like microsofts taktics with their own office format, so you want propriatary drivers you nearly have to use ubuntu. or you get less fast stuff, I dont like that.
    They try to kill the other distros basicly with such moves. they try to make ubuntu the propriatary standard under linux. And if they have 99% of the users, all the company will only support ubuntu in the long run, the arm companies will see ok we release a blob and we support perfectly ubuntu (so linux) with that.
    The much hate nvidia get last 5 years or so for their propriatary solutions did make change them, now with the arm they changed their poliscy they help to develop a free tegra driver.
    And opensource drivers get faster better and better, without much regressions, they prove that they are the better solution.

    13. http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?ke...ng&section=all where is your choice here?
    Last edited by blackiwid; 05-01-2013 at 07:27 AM.

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