Miguel de Icaza Leaves Linux For Apple OS X

[Togga]

Oh, I see and you have so much knowledge because you are a software developer with years of experience? Yeah, didn't thought so, too.

And all those proofs you delivered, very nice. Meanwhile I'll start banshee and hear some music which means I literally can't hear you over the sound of how awesome mono is.

Wow. Is banshee still the poster-app for C# in Linux. No wonder this bloated peice-of-shit-system will die... Anyway, everyone nowadays uses either iTunes or Spotify.

[Togga]

Maybe he just wants to stay near and support the biggest IT-bully of the year in hope to be able to bullying someone himself.

[Pawlerson]

Oh, I see and you have so much knowledge because you are a software developer with years of experience? Yeah, didn't thought so, too.

And all those proofs you delivered, very nice. Meanwhile I'll start banshee and hear some music which means I literally can't hear you over the sound of how awesome mono is.

Oh, and I don't have to be a developer to judge mono crap. It's enough to try mono applications. You hear sound in banshee till it crashes, because it's huge, bloated and unstable mess. The same about other mono shit that's available on Linux. There are dozens of Qt/C++, C, Python applications available on Linux while there are only few mono applications. What's worse, those few applications are utter crap. What proofs do you want to confirm there are just a few mono apps on Linux? Everything's ok with you? You'll also hear sound in any other application, so does it mean everything is awesome? What a dumb. Like I pointed in another thread mono is anti-Linux and it's m$ crap.

[Pawlerson]

One more thing. While there are only few mono applications available due to lack of interest in this shit, it seems there are just a few mono supporters "available" as well! Destructor, Ciplogic and Luke_Wolf and I bet they're from ximian, m$ or m$ friendly companies to lobby for mono.

[directhex]

The desktop was not fragmented before he himself started the GNOME project as an alternative to KDE...

Qt was proprietary at the time.

Are you saying you don't think the desktop needs a Free toolkit on which to build?

In my opinion, the Linux desktop wouldn't be as fragmented, weren't it for the Gnome shell and Unity.
Partially he is to blame.

Miguel had no involvement in GNOME for years before GNOME Shell and Unity happened. Why is he to blame for that? Is he also to blame for World War 4?

Seeing what you did to Gnome, good riddance and don't come back.

Founded it?

Not sure why he wasn't just kicked off in the first place.

Are you in charge of the committee that determines who is permitted to use Open Source, and who is banned?

does someone know what that means for Mono? As a cross-platform developer I hope that it doesn't influence Mono.

Xamarin aren't targeting Linux at all. Individual Xamarin employees continue to fix bugs in the stack.

The community is expected to fill in gaps it feels it needs (e.g. Gtk+3) and take care of packaging (e.g. for major distros).

I guess that makes me a major part of that.

LOLWUT? From every modern benchmark I've ever seen Java gives C# butthurt in the speed department. I guess you don't like the massive amount of Java IDEs either. They are different, not inferior. To give you some credit though, I don't code in Java (C++ and lua all the way for me) but still, I think that criticism unnecessary and incorrect.

Java is a bit faster than Mono, at a cost of using an order of magnitude more RAM for even basic tasks, and being broadly useless for desktop apps.

Where else but the Microsoft website can you find Silverlight videos? I can't say I've come across many, if any at all. I don't know why anyone would use Silverlight for something like that anyway, there are better uses for it.

It was used for the Obama inauguration, way back when (where Moonlight worked), and for UK Parliament videos (where Moonlight worked).

It doesn't work, however, for Netflix. Which is all people care about. When people moan about Moonlight, what they're really saying is "Waaaah waaaah waaaah I can't use a proprietary DRM'd video service that I pay for, because the Moonlight developers have had to do every bit of monkeywork themselves, since the community never thought to pitch in. Waaaaaaaah"

I really disliked the idea of mono, the way I disliked the idea of Wine. It made an excuse to not use Linux native tools or compilers. I thank him for his work and curse him as well. Wine and mono are both double edged swords and I understand the need if not loathe the result. Yeah I know, I use Wine when I must for games I "must" play... Wow I suck.

Mono is no less a "Linux native tools or compilers" than Python or Ruby is.

Python

If you want better performance you can always write a module in with Cython, Boost.Python, etc.

Windows programs written in C# almost always rely on WPF / Windows Forms, so it's not really cross platform in the sense that Java is. You can't compile those programs with Mono.

Mono has had a WinForms implementation for a good decade now. WPF, you're right, is absent.

But have you considered Gtk+? It's cross-platform and has great tools in MonoDevelop, working fine on Windows and Mac when you develop on Linux. MonoDevelop 4 shows how good a Gtk+ app can look on non-Linux platforms.

All it means is Miguel and co really need to get their act together and write a mono implementation of WPF

Why should they? As this thread clearly demonstrates, it isn't worth their time investing millions of man-hours in major pieces of infrastructure which broadly speaking only benefit Linux.

Oh, and I don't have to be a developer to judge mono crap. It's enough to try mono applications. You hear sound in banshee till it crashes, because it's huge, bloated and unstable mess. The same about other mono shit that's available on Linux. There are dozens of Qt/C++, C, Python applications available on Linux while there are only few mono applications. What's worse, those few applications are utter crap. What proofs do you want to confirm there are just a few mono apps on Linux? Everything's ok with you? You'll also hear sound in any other application, so does it mean everything is awesome? What a dumb. Like I pointed in another thread mono is anti-Linux and it's m$ crap.

I disproved the "Banshee is bloated" nonsense in 2009. Have a read here.

The problem is that it doesn't matter if your app is responsive and lightweight - a parade of morons will still shout from the rooftops about how bloated and slow it is, because they are bound by religion to say so, not by any commitment to facts or reality.

One more thing. While there are only few mono applications available due to lack of interest in this shit, it seems there are just a few mono supporters "available" as well! Destructor, Ciplogic and Luke_Wolf and I bet they're from ximian, m$ or m$ friendly companies to lobby for mono.

Maybe most of them have better things to do than spend all day arguing with the stupidest people in the "Linux community"

[TemplarGR]

Oh, and I don't have to be a developer to judge mono crap. It's enough to try mono applications. You hear sound in banshee till it crashes, because it's huge, bloated and unstable mess. The same about other mono shit that's available on Linux. There are dozens of Qt/C++, C, Python applications available on Linux while there are only few mono applications. What's worse, those few applications are utter crap. What proofs do you want to confirm there are just a few mono apps on Linux? Everything's ok with you? You'll also hear sound in any other application, so does it mean everything is awesome? What a dumb. Like I pointed in another thread mono is anti-Linux and it's m$ crap.

You are totally ignorant and you do not know what you are talking about.

You cannot judge a programming language and/or framework/virtual machine based on the apps that have been made with it. The apps' quality is based entirely on their programmers. And also, the fact that there are only a few mono apps means nothing at all about its quality. Mono in general is unattractive for Linux development because of patent fears/bad reputation and most pick alternatives like Python. This doesn't mean that Mono doesn't have its merits.

The best thing Mono brings to the table is the ability for experienced C# programmers on Windows to contribute to Linux. This is a nice thing. If you don't like it, then purge every trace of Mono from your system and never use it. No one is forcing you to use it. Stop spreading FUD though...

[peppercats]

Are you in charge of the committee that determines who is permitted to use Open Source, and who is banned?

Someone who cares about OSS should be, a Microsoft MVP shouldn't be part of a major OSS team.

[directhex]

Someone who cares about OSS should be, a Microsoft MVP shouldn't be part of a major OSS team.

So you would advocate adding "except for anyone with tangential relationship to Microsoft - fuck those guys" to Stallman's "four freedoms" definition, and adjust all FSF licenses accordingly?

Free except for classes of citizens we don't like?

[peppercats]

So you would advocate adding "except for anyone with tangential relationship to Microsoft - fuck those guys" to Stallman's "four freedoms" definition, and adjust all FSF licenses accordingly?

Free except for classes of citizens we don't like?

I don't respond to strawman arguments, sorry.

[directhex]

I don't respond to strawman arguments, sorry.

So what was "Not sure why he wasn't just kicked off in the first place." meant to mean, if my interpretation of your intentions was wrong?