Miguel de Icaza Leaves Linux For Apple OS X

[Luke_Wolf]

Hey kid, why don't you go back to school and learn how to read? I've been talking about the Linux _desktop_, and it's a fact that it's a fragmented mess. I'm very much a Linux user, it's a great server platform and has lots of good uses for appliances and such. Oh well, I guess it's too much to expect that small minds like yourself should be able to see the larger picture. I've used the Linux "desktop" since the time of Windowmanagers (afterstep, blackbox, enlightenment, windowmaker, etc.), and although things have improved greatly, it's still not a serious contender compared to Windows/Mac. Nobody is shipping it on laptops because it just isn't good enough.

Well the issue there is quite a bit more complex than that. First off I'd like to introduce you to this thing called the Win32 API.

The Windows API is so broad, so deep, and so functional that most Independent Software Vendors would be crazy not to use it. And it is so deeply embedded in the source code of many Windows apps that there is a huge switching cost to using a different operating system instead... It is this switching cost that has given the customers the patience to stick with Windows through all our mistakes, our buggy drivers, our high TCO (total cost of ownership), our lack of a sexy vision at times, and many other difficulties [...] Customers constantly evaluate other desktop platforms, [but] it would be so much work to move over that they hope we just improve Windows rather than force them to move. In short, without this exclusive franchise called the Windows API, we would have been dead a long time ago.

As you can see here this is from Microsoft stating that they were able to survive because programs were so absolutely reliant upon the windows API. In short there is the software incompatibility issue, with it being non-trivial to port an application that relies so much upon that API. However Microsoft has actually tried to push away with that with the creation of .NET and it's open specs related to it.

Related to the former issue there's been quite the lack of commercial software, yes you could WINE but whether it's going to work is hit or miss. Valve is changing this.

Then we've got the issue that no company has really been pushing Linux to the masses or the OEMs, sure Canonical claims to do that but honestly they're relying upon their community to do the marketing. While they have a relationship with Dell, until project sputnik came along Ubuntu was a 3rd class citizen to Dell, and I think project sputnik has far more to do with Dell than Canonical. Valve on the other paw is beginning to actually push linux to consumers and is working with OEMs on the steambox spec.

To further expound on the previous point the average consumer does not have the confidence (note confidence not competence) nor see the need to install an alternative OS and so what the OEMs provide them they'll take. If the OEMs do not provide it as a first class option, well.. the average customer quite simply won't buy it because they don't even know it's available. Again.. Valve is changing this.

Quite simply this idea of: "If we build it they will come", doesn't work with just pushing an OS you have to be pushing a product. Which until Valve came along no company has done. My point here is ultimately that it's a lot more complex than "Linux hasn't gained market share since it's not good enough". Yes Linux has some areas we're really sucky in at the moment, the display server being the prime example, however thankfully the infrastructure is getting revamped due to the systemd CoreOS push and Wayland. Again though even if Linux were the best, most perfect OS ever without a company like valve pushing it to the masses & OEMs and the masses wouldn't adopt it.

Yeah, really insightful comments there. Why do you suppose there's no decent video/sound editing software? I'll tell you why, because the Linux desktop is FRAGMENTED. Google it, maybe you'll learn something. There is no standard desktop, some distributions ship KDE, some ship GNOME, others Unity or other obscure DE. Accelerated graphics drivers are not installed by default. If the major distributions decided on some sort of common ground (desktop environment, display server, installed libraries, etc.) it would obviously be a huge step, this is what UnitedLinux tried to do. Ubuntu tries to do something about it but without including others in their decisions.

You can go on believing the Linux desktop is perfect if you want, the reality is very different.

I really don't think the desktop wars have anything to do with there being good video/sound editing software or not, and if you really want it Maya is available for Linux. In fact if you actually examine the video editing field you'll see that Kdenlive and PiTiVi (the KDE and Gnome entries into the market respectively) are both using some of the same underlying technologies (and thus the same plugins work with both), and that they're targeted at two completely different audiences. Kdenlive targets the more professional and semi-professional editing market while PiTiVi is targeting home users so that's not fragmentation and there being a single DE wouldn't change anything in that regard. Also I don't think KWave and Audacity coming together would somehow result in some super audio editor, the real issue is basically that since nobody uses Open Source Software for the related fields that the audience that has an interest isn't developing it resulting in it not being up to their specs. It's that chicken and the egg problem.

Also we do have accelerated graphics drivers by default for most desktop cards now, you can argue about whether they're any good versus the binary drivers but they are accelerated.

I would imagine since you care so much about this issue of fragmentation you have heard about the LSB right? http://www.linuxfoundation.org/colla...workgroups/lsb and systemd's CoreOS, although as a developer I can tell you that the fragmentation argument is largely BS, as long as you're using libraries available everywhere (like Qt or GTK) you'll be fine.

[energyman]

there are two kinds of people who like MacOSX.

Those who sit around starbucks all day long, telling everybody how great it is

And those who had the pleasure to do some work with it and hate its guts.

Undeletable files, beachballing it just by opening a word doc, vanishing files come not for free. You have to pay a lot for it.

[CthuIhux]

UNIX-Like? OS X is a real Unix operating system:

"2010 UNIX on the Desktop Apple reports 50 million desktops and growing -- these are Certified UNIX systems."

Real Unix? Wrong, it's just a certified Unix (not that being it a real Unix makes an OS better). This is because it's based of a very piece a shit Unix-like OS with far less unix tools and capabilities then Linux. It's called FreeBSD. Thanks to it's crazy BSD license, Apple can steal BSD code and not have anyone know.

BSD is not even a real unix, case they had to rewrite their OS after they were sued by USL cause they outright copied Unix. It turns out they were shit at rewritting a OS (while linus was good) su that the resulting 4.4BSD-lite was not an OS cause it could not boot.

"Over the years, Apple has been a great supporter of the UNIX standard, and today, Mac OS X is the most widely used UNIX desktop operating system. Apple’s installed base—over 50 million users— and commitment to the UNIX standard as a platform is significant to the UNIX certification program. We look forward to continuing to work with Apple and our other UNIX partners in promoting open and interoperable operating systems as the specification continues to evolve."

http://blog.opengroup.org/2012/07/25...x-03-standard/

Apple is not a supporter of UNIX standard, they are just giving thier scraps and shit to BSD who loves getting raped and taken advantage of. BTW, the open group has got nothing to do while open source or linux. If fact they actually create closed software and work with proprietary unix companies. They only certify unix or unix-like systems if they are proprietary.

[Vim_User]

Real Unix? Wrong, it's just a certified Unix (not that being it a real Unix makes an OS better). This is because it's based of a very piece a shit Unix-like OS with far less unix tools and capabilities then Linux. It's called FreeBSD. Thanks to it's crazy BSD license, Apple can steal BSD code and not have anyone know.

BSD is not even a real unix, case they had to rewrite their OS after they were sued by USL cause they outright copied Unix. It turns out they were shit at rewritting a OS (while linus was good) su that the resulting 4.4BSD-lite was not an OS cause it could not boot.



Apple is not a supporter of UNIX standard, they are just giving thier scraps and shit to BSD who loves getting raped and taken advantage of. BTW, the open group has got nothing to do while open source or linux. If fact they actually create closed software and work with proprietary unix companies. They only certify unix or unix-like systems if they are proprietary.

Already banned, second time imitating a different user's name, as I stated before you are even to dumb to troll on Phoronix. Come back when you are twelve.

[Pawlerson]

So let's hear your even more fevered tirade against Python (Exaile used 33% more RAM than Banshee in testing, Listen used almost 100% more).

Let's hear your frantic ranting against C++ and Javascript (Songbird)

Or maybe you'll do neither, because your argument is not based on reality (i.e. Banshee was the second lightest player tested), but on religion (ARGH MONO BAD ARGH)

Nice try, troll. Songbird, Exaile are far more feature rich and way more responsive than banshee which is just a mono crap. Amarok is also far more responsive. A funny thing is there are dozens of sersious C and C++ applications while there's not even a single one serious .net or mono application.

[Pawlerson]

The existence of C# apps on Linux, including but not limited to a significant portion of games available on Linux, kinda disproves you a bit here.

Not at all. There's just a few crappy and bloated apps and nothing new come after them. Nothing serious and nothing interesting. A few games that NOT entirely written using mono? Stop kidding.

[Pawlerson]

Indulge me. This forum software doesn't provide me with an easy way to see instances where you may have replied to me in other threads.

Ok, that's fair, because I also don't follow every thread I was replying in.

[Pawlerson]

You can go on believing the Linux desktop is perfect if you want, the reality is very different.

Linux is nearly perfect and far better than Windows or OS X when you don't care about every piece of FLOSS. Just focus on Linux/GNU/KDE/systemd/Wayland. This is perfect.

[directhex]

A few games that NOT entirely written using mono? Stop kidding.

Eh?

Several games are entirely written in Mono, including the hundred-plus-award-winning Bastion.

[directhex]

Nice try, troll. Songbird, Exaile are far more feature rich and way more responsive than banshee which is just a mono crap. Amarok is also far more responsive. A funny thing is there are dozens of sersious C and C++ applications while there's not even a single one serious .net or mono application.

Which features are in Exaile, which Banshee lacks, then, since you're the expert?

Be sure to compare to the list of features in Banshee but not Exaile, then see which list is longer.

If it's not 33% more features in Exaile than Banshee, then that 33% more RAM figure has only one explanation: Python bloat.