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Thread: Shuttleworth On Mir: "A Fantastic Piece of Engineering"

  1. #41
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    Default Aarrgghhh

    I get sick when I read these comments.

    There are more than 500 different Linux-distributions,
    We have GNOME, KDE, XFCE, MATE, Cinamon,... But if Canonical Unity releases is war ...
    Everybody was using Compiz, but because it used by Canonical everyone says it is a bad piece of enginering ...
    We have X-Org, Wayland, ... But now Canonical releases Mir and this means war ...

    Every time Canonical does something new it means war ...

    This tells me more about you than about Canonical.

    Go Ubuntu, go Mark, go developers ... Create something amazing

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by erendorn View Post
    Because wayland is MIT licensed and supported by multiple players, while Mir is GPL
    This is actually the reason that makes me support Mir rather than Wayland, it annoyed me to no end that such a core component of a supposedly free/libre OS is not GPL licensed and is open to corporate abuse. The only thing that is holding Linux together is the fact that the Linux kernel is GPL, if it was not, we would have hundreds of offshoots and fragmented proprietary derivatives each pitching their unique special candy proprietary technology that separates them from the rest which would make the core stagnate and be nothing more than a "base" for all the proprietary offshoots - point in case BSD and OS X.

    License wise Mir is much better, technologically we will see ... I'm not thrilled that it's a Canonical project, which hasn't been exactly exemplary when it comes to software freedom but well, we'll see.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartek View Post
    because it used by Canonical everyone says it is a bad piece of enginering ...
    We have X-Org, Wayland, ... But now Canonical releases Mir and this means war ...

    Every time Canonical does something new it means war ...

    This tells me more about you than about Canonical.
    Exactly!

    Kwin maintainer says that Kwin won't(!) support Mir - and even if someone would post a patch, he would veto it(!), just like that, in advance, he just made his mind to not support THE most popular distribution outthere. Imagine that Mark would said they won't support KDE in any way and if someone posts a patch he is going to veto it, there would be outrage, OUTRAGE! I tell you!

    But this pompous Kwin maintainer gets to do exactly that, he is the bully and he is the one causing infighting, division and fragmentation here in this instance, NOT Canonical.

    So why is everybody okay with that? I have no idea ... there are really just Canonical haters who hate anything that Canonical makes not for its merits but for their feelings toward Ubuntu/Canonical. That's not to say Canonical doesn't make bad decisions, it does, but they should be called out specifically and not blanket every possible thing that comes out from them. Gosh!

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libreman View Post
    This is actually the reason that makes me support Mir rather than Wayland, it annoyed me to no end that such a core component of a supposedly free/libre OS is not GPL licensed and is open to corporate abuse. The only thing that is holding Linux together is the fact that the Linux kernel is GPL, if it was not, we would have hundreds of offshoots and fragmented proprietary derivatives each pitching their unique special candy proprietary technology that separates them from the rest which would make the core stagnate and be nothing more than a "base" for all the proprietary offshoots - point in case BSD and OS X.

    License wise Mir is much better, technologically we will see ... I'm not thrilled that it's a Canonical project, which hasn't been exactly exemplary when it comes to software freedom but well, we'll see.


    May the GPL one live!!! Let anything else die!!!

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by artivision View Post
    May the GPL one live!!! Let anything else die!!!
    WRT to drivers ( on which such server heaviy relies on BTW) yes. I WANT to know what is in such drivers. I want my computer safe.

    And BTW why wouldn't we push for such goal now that we even have open-source alternatives ? Why wouldn't we push for advancement of open-source radeon and intel driver and give nVidia and others incentive to make step in same direction ?

    Is Linux about freedom or more about getting some stuff free ( of charge) instead paying for Win licence ?

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libreman View Post
    Exactly!

    Kwin maintainer says that Kwin won't(!) support Mir - and even if someone would post a patch, he would veto it(!), just like that, in advance, he just made his mind to not support THE most popular distribution outthere. Imagine that Mark would said they won't support KDE in any way and if someone posts a patch he is going to veto it, there would be outrage, OUTRAGE! I tell you!

    But this pompous Kwin maintainer gets to do exactly that, he is the bully and he is the one causing infighting, division and fragmentation here in this instance, NOT Canonical.

    So why is everybody okay with that? I have no idea ... there are really just Canonical haters who hate anything that Canonical makes not for its merits but for their feelings toward Ubuntu/Canonical. That's not to say Canonical doesn't make bad decisions, it does, but they should be called out specifically and not blanket every possible thing that comes out from them. Gosh!
    He didn't say that. He said they didn't support distrospecifik code upstream.
    Besides that. Ubuntu is a big distro, but I'm not sure Kubuntu really is that big. I get the impression most Ubuntu user use Unity.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libreman View Post
    This is actually the reason that makes me support Mir rather than Wayland, it annoyed me to no end that such a core component of a supposedly free/libre OS is not GPL licensed and is open to corporate abuse. The only thing that is holding Linux together is the fact that the Linux kernel is GPL, if it was not, we would have hundreds of offshoots and fragmented proprietary derivatives each pitching their unique special candy proprietary technology that separates them from the rest which would make the core stagnate and be nothing more than a "base" for all the proprietary offshoots - point in case BSD and OS X.

    License wise Mir is much better, technologically we will see ... I'm not thrilled that it's a Canonical project, which hasn't been exactly exemplary when it comes to software freedom but well, we'll see.
    You don't seem to know what licence X11 use, or why the MIT licence was invented in the first place. And Mir isn't just GPL-licensed, it has Canonical's usual CLA twist. Which nullifies much of the GPL in the first place.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libreman View Post
    Kwin maintainer says that Kwin won't(!) support Mir - and even if someone would post a patch, he would veto it(!), just like that, in advance, he just made his mind to not support THE most popular distribution outthere. Imagine that Mark would said they won't support KDE in any way and if someone posts a patch he is going to veto it, there would be outrage, OUTRAGE! I tell you!
    Mark just did something very similar as you describe, by re-nagging Canonical's "pledge" to support Wayland. (hence the outrage).

    You've also left out the part where refusing to support Mir actually comes down to not supporting distro-specific patchwork. he then goes on to say, that *if* Mir ended up being in multiple distro's - then the idea of support would be re-visited...

    Quote Originally Posted by Libreman View Post
    But this pompous Kwin maintainer gets to do exactly that, he is the bully and he is the one causing infighting, division and fragmentation here in this instance, NOT Canonical.
    except that he (kwin-dev) is not a bully, he gave *valid* reasons for not supporting a distro-specific set of patches, since that doesn't benefit anyone beyond Ubuntu asnd adds developmental burdens. And you've got it ass-backwards, by rejecting Wayland (and systemd for that matter) and moving towards creating Mir; Mark/Canonical has caused a split, division, fragmentation and pissed all over the larger FOSS community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Libreman View Post
    So why is everybody okay with that? I have no idea ... there are really just Canonical haters who hate anything that Canonical makes not for its merits but for their feelings toward Ubuntu/Canonical. That's not to say Canonical doesn't make bad decisions, it does, but they should be called out specifically and not blanket every possible thing that comes out from them. Gosh!
    You have no idea, because what you said above simply isn't the case. While i think it is true that some people do crap all over Canonical for silly reasons, in a 'blanketed way', some of the flack Canonical is very warranted.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Libreman View Post
    This is actually the reason that makes me support Mir rather than Wayland, it annoyed me to no end that such a core component of a supposedly free/libre OS is not GPL licensed and is open to corporate abuse.
    Xorg is also MIT licensed, for quite some time, yet I have still to see the corporate abuse so many GPL enthusiasts speak about.

    Kwin maintainer says that Kwin won't(!) support Mir - and even if someone would post a patch, he would veto it(!), just like that, in advance, he just made his mind to not support THE most popular distribution outthere.
    Nope, he is saying that he will veto distro specific patches, regardless of the distro. Which is the way they have done it before, he didn't come up with that now just because he doesn't like Mir (which he by the way also is not saying, he justr doesn't want distro specific patches).

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luke_Wolf View Post
    Most people who actually have a clue are angry at Canonical not because Mir exists but because Canonical didn't even try to work with Wayland,
    actually not. the wayland guys got angry because of the wrong claims about wayland ubuntu provided as explenations for their initiative to make mir.

    if the above reason you mentioned would be alone then i would like to ask you:
    why should they? where is written that they or anybody else has an obigation to talk to the devs of an not even yet used project?
    who has the right to demand such nonsense? you?

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