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Thread: Systemd 198 Brings "Many Big Changes"

  1. #21
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    I wonder if there will ever be something posted on systemd that won't be cluttered by ad-hominem and slippery-slope arguments.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micket View Post
    I wonder if there will ever be something posted on systemd that won't be cluttered by ad-hominem and slippery-slope arguments.
    You mean like taking the moronix out of phoronix? Nah, lets just keep trolling around. Actually I know of some people measuring the adoption rate amongst air-heads as the valid/shit-ratio of phoronix forum comments. By such metrics systemd is gaining. Of course the air-heads are wasting time right now on shell-scripting so they dont have the time for joining the party.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micket View Post
    I wonder if there will ever be something posted on systemd that won't be cluttered by ad-hominem and slippery-slope arguments.
    That's mostly just because of LP's personality. Linus has charisma, RMS has presence of mind, LP has neither. Nor does he have enough common sense to keep away from drama. I dislike him myself but, unlike many others, he does more coding than talking. Need to give him some credit for that.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy_ View Post
    That's mostly just because of LP's personality. Linus has charisma, RMS has presence of mind, LP has neither. Nor does he have enough common sense to keep away from drama. I dislike him myself but, unlike many others, he does more coding than talking. Need to give him some credit for that.
    Since when did Linus have all that much charisma?

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    Since when did Linus have all that much charisma?
    Linus has charisma, he just isnt afraid to cut the act and call bullshit when its necessary.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    Since when did Linus have all that much charisma?
    Not sure, probably he was born that way.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by prodigy_ View Post
    That's mostly just because of LP's personality. Linus has charisma, RMS has presence of mind, LP has neither. Nor does he have enough common sense to keep away from drama. I dislike him myself but, unlike many others, he does more coding than talking. Need to give him some credit for that.
    Yeah, another ad-hominen attack. Try using arguments and talk about the software. And I mean technical bits, not something vague.

  8. #28
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    Wow, this was unexpected. Whats the deal with all you people defending systemd? I don't get it? It breaks compatibility by requiring all new scripts to be written, most of which don't exist yet. Thet increase the complexity of the scripts considerably. They change syntax for no other reason than to change it....

    And all of this is somehow considered a good thing?

    It's less compatible.
    It more complex.
    It does waaaaaayyyy more than service management.
    It doesnt do service management very well.
    It -IS- buggy.

    It does -NOT- eliminate scripting, it simply replaces it with a more complex higher level language that is less suited to the job.

    Since when exactly did shell scripting become a bad thing? You take one of the most powerful and standardized features of linux and try to use it as an arguement... Theres something seriously screwed up about that.

    "The simplest way to accomplish something is the best way"
    Last edited by duby229; 03-08-2013 at 02:38 PM.

  9. #29
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    systemd supports init scripts, so you don't *need* to write new scripts.

    I don't see why the opposite (an init script which reads systemd units and acts based on their content) can't be true. ;p

    Of course, it'd probably be really complicated, and you'd be better off writing a binary for your own OS which parses systemd units. To each his own, I guess. But since Linux OSs are the only ones which are using systemd (and not all of them are), and other init systems are so much better, you shouldn't have any trouble finding scripts for your OS. And if you do, since they're so easy to write, you can just make one on the fly, right?

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Wow, this was unexpected. Whats the deal with all you people defending systemd? I don't get it? It breaks compatibility by requiring all new scripts to be written, most of which don't exist yet. Thet increase the complexity of the scripts considerably. They change syntax for no other reason than to change it....

    "Breaks compatibility" ? It can run rc scripts just fine, you just dont get the bonuses of systemd. "They have to be written" So what? Unit files are like 10 lines of code. "They change syntax for no other reason than to change it" No they dont. They add in syntax to unit files but they dont CHANGE the syntax. Backwards compatibility exists.


    And all of this is somehow considered a good thing?

    It's less compatible.
    It has the expressed and explicit goal of being a LINUX project. Not unix. If FreeBSD wants to adopt systemd all they have to do is bring the same features to their kernel that the linux kernel does. But systemd's development wont be held back because FreeBSD doesnt have developers.

    It more complex.
    It does waaaaaayyyy more than service management.
    Modularity beyond any extreme, and perfectly compatibile with existing solutions. Its goal hasn't been to do just service management for years, and the developers have been honest about that.

    It doesnt do service management very well.
    It does service management perfectly well... Zero problems with services since early F15

    It -IS- buggy.
    All software is buggy. Welcome to the real world-- nothings perfect. SysV wasn't either.

    It does -NOT- eliminate scripting, it simply replaces it with a more complex higher level language that is less suited to the job.
    It replaces it with declarative, ini style configs. It tells systemctl what it wants to do, and systemctl manages it.

    Since when exactly did shell scripting become a bad thing?
    When it became buggy and ugly and not cross-distro, when all the differences in the distro started having to write their own rc scripts because the differences couldnt be abstracted at the shell level.

    "The simplest way to accomplish something is the best way"
    True, but sometimes "the simplest way" is also the cop-out, half-assed way-- welcome to SysV.

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