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Thread: KWin On Mir: A Solution To Non-Existent Problem

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    I think it was because Shuttlewoth announced kwin soon should work with MIR that trigged the response. Apparently Canonical have never contributed anything in kwin.
    git log | grep "@canonical" on the kwin sources shows 0 commits by any canonical employee ever. Which is especially funny because Mark promised the KDE community that Canonical would supply the patches necessary to work on Wayland when Ubuntu said "We're going to Wayland!" because at the time they were the only distro doing it.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    o.O No its not. Go back a few articles and michael listed the "TODO" List for Mir. it was massive, and filled with a LOT of hardwork and NONE of Canonicals devs have any experience with the low level stuff. Wayland is basically usable now. I specifically asked Daniel Stone when Wayland would be considered "usable" and he said "If you like XCFE...its usable now." Meaning, minimal environments are done. KDE and GNOME have to be ported over still, KDE will happen when Frameworks 5 hits which hopefully will be this year. Gnome is currently ported off an old version of wayland, but is being worked on.
    Are you sure it was xfce? I thought they still used gtk2?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    I think it was because Shuttlewoth announced kwin soon should work with MIR that trigged the response. Apparently Canonical have never contributed anything in kwin.
    i understand that the main dev of kwin gets upset by such a statement. i would most probably feel the same.

    but that doesn't make it better what he said a top of this (my quote above). beside of that, already the first statement i saw from that dev was already very aggressivly negative while trying to pretend neutrality, even before canonicle posted that announcement.

    in fact, we do not know what happens there in the backstage. and i do not want to judge who started what. but it pisses me off reading such idiotic statements like the ones above and i saw many of that style here in the forums.

    if canonical wants to start their own display server project then they have al right to do it and they do not own anybody to first ask for permission or get in contact with any other startup project with the same aim.
    why i haven't read any such statements when wayland started? sure even there were a lot of complaints like "why we need that? fragmentation bla bla". and now the same people seem to defend wayland >.>

    it feels here like a big kindagarden. it really makes me sad seeing how the linux community changed. it sounds as if former window users are hopping on linux now and are whining about every thing what made linux different in the past.

  4. #14
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    Uhm.., you guys DO realize that Larabel is just trolling you, right?!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by not.sure View Post
    Uhm.., you guys DO realize that Larabel is just trolling you, right?!
    Trolling what? Martin made the blogpost, Michael brought the blogpost to the news world. End of story. I've read the blogpost, it reads exactly what Michael reported.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by a user View Post
    i
    it feels here like a big kindagarden. it really makes me sad seeing how the linux community changed. it sounds as if former window users are hopping on linux now and are whining about every thing what made linux different in the past.
    No, I think the prevailing attitude is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". A lot of people still need some convincing that Xorg is broken, as on the surface, it doesn't seem too bad. The people that are already convinced that Xorg is broken have already begun to accept the inevitability of Wayland.. So now, Wayland is stable, people are bringing out the same "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!".. But not against Wayland, it's against Mir now.

    Mir hasn't been doing a very good job at showing where Wayland is broken, but I think a key point that people are missing is that Mir might be able to work with proprietary Android blob drivers which would be critical to getting Mir to run on other smartphones other than the Ubuntu phone. Providing people the option to run Mir on their other devices, even if the manufacturer doesn't support it, sounds pretty interesting to me.

    Does Wayland ever plan to get proprietary Android binary blob drivers working with their display servers? Especially considering that Android's linux kernel has a patchset that still hasn't been merged into mainline linux... I doubt it. Mir, it appears, has that as a critical goal that's going to be extremely important. Whether or not Canonical can pull it off is anybody's guess.

    I'll bet you anything that Canonical is planning on running Google's Android patchset for the linux kernel and on top of that is going to be running Android device drivers in Mir to bring Ubuntu to all smartphones that can run Android today.
    Last edited by Sidicas; 03-08-2013 at 09:23 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidicas View Post
    No, I think the prevailing attitude is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". A lot of people still need some convincing that Xorg is broken, as on the surface, it doesn't seem too bad. The people that are already convinced that Xorg is broken have already begun to accept the inevitability of Wayland.. So now, Wayland is stable, people are bringing out the same "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!".. But not against Wayland, it's against Mir now.

    Mir hasn't been doing a very good job at showing where Wayland is broken, but I think a key point that people are missing is that Mir might be able to work with proprietary Android blob drivers which would be critical to getting Mir to run on other smartphones other than the Ubuntu phone. Providing people the option to run Mir on their other devices, even if the manufacturer doesn't support it, sounds pretty interesting to me.

    Does Wayland ever plan to get proprietary Android binary blob drivers working with their display servers? Especially considering that Android's linux kernel has a patchset that still hasn't been merged into mainline linux... I doubt it. Mir, it appears, has that as a critical goal that's going to be extremely important. Whether or not Canonical can pull it off is anybody's guess.

    I'll bet you anything that Canonical is planning on running Google's Android patchset for the linux kernel and on top of that is going to be running Android device drivers in Mir to bring Ubuntu to all smartphones that can run Android today.
    I'm not completely sure but I think Collabora had wayland running on android with android driver a year ago or something. Its old articles on Phoronix about it. But I'm nut sure if that project is particularly active now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Are you sure it was xfce? I thought they still used gtk2?
    Reread my post Akka, I was talking about minimal environments LIKE XFCE (so was Daniel when he said it if you can find his post) Weston is basically a panel, task manager/switcher and maybe a systray.

    The only toolkits right now that support Wayland properly, just FYI, are Enlightenment and Qt5. GTK3 is still being sorted out if I remember correctly (could be wrong), and KDE will gain Wayland support when it rebases off of Qt5 for Frameworks 5

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    Quote Originally Posted by schmidtbag View Post
    oh snap.

    If Canonical keeps up with Mir and if it manages to become more successful than Wayland, it does get me to wonder what devs like Martin will do or say when they realize they might have to join. While I think Martin makes an excellent point, I don't think Mir is that bad; lets put it in this way - it's more complete than Wayland and it'll offer Android drivers, but it isn't as clunky and obsolete as X. Really the only serious problem with Mir (that I can see) is getting devs to port everything to it when they already are in the process of that for Wayland. In other words, I think Mir pisses off devs because it's too late. I'm sure if it existed BEFORE wayland then it would get the same positive attention as wayland, minus the few people who hate canonical just because they want to hate canonical.
    If... and if... and if...
    The only part where you do not use *if* is in the statement "it's more complete than Wayland", and it's totally wrong.
    Well done, mate.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by a user View Post
    i understand that the main dev of kwin gets upset by such a statement. i would most probably feel the same.

    but that doesn't make it better what he said a top of this (my quote above). beside of that, already the first statement i saw from that dev was already very aggressivly negative while trying to pretend neutrality, even before canonicle posted that announcement.

    in fact, we do not know what happens there in the backstage. and i do not want to judge who started what. but it pisses me off reading such idiotic statements like the ones above and i saw many of that style here in the forums.

    if canonical wants to start their own display server project then they have al right to do it and they do not own anybody to first ask for permission or get in contact with any other startup project with the same aim.
    why i haven't read any such statements when wayland started? sure even there were a lot of complaints like "why we need that? fragmentation bla bla". and now the same people seem to defend wayland >.>

    it feels here like a big kindagarden. it really makes me sad seeing how the linux community changed. it sounds as if former window users are hopping on linux now and are whining about every thing what made linux different in the past.


    I thing that Linux users are not whining. They just want the same things from the beginning of Linux time:

    1) GPL and open standards. They don't want Mir nor Wayland, nor Flash nor Net(Mono), nor Catalyst nor Nvidia_blob. They want a GPL_LLVM(GCC5 or 6), HTML5, VP9, and others.

    2) Compatibility with closed things. They don't prefer a new Kernel version but a new Wine version. They need the latest Lightspark. They prefer Unified_Graphics_Drivers that understand many Compilers(like GLSL and HLSL at the same time) and they don't need translations(glsl=disabled), plus free HLSL_compilers/state_trackers. They need Qemu to have 70+% translation efficiency, so they don't have to relay on closed Instruction_Sets. They need last generation Console_Emulators and Console destruction. And many more.

    I really think that companies like Red_Hat that they gain a billion or more per year, should be interested to make Linux and Libre_standards, destroy once and for ever anything else for good. They must spare like a hundred or two or more programmers to perfect Linux things.

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