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Thread: Wayland/Weston Gets Forked As "GH-Next"

  1. #11
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    For who follow close the mailing list, this is not new, in any case see below a part of email exchange between Scott and Daniel:

    Daniel:
    Did that patchset get submitted to the list for review? If not, will it
    be?

    Scott:
    No. These patches breaks many of the core goals of wayland/weston with DE-like features.
    <krh> weston isn't going to be a full DE, starting a new DE is specifically a non-goal of wayland
    <krh> and I've always said that fleshing out wl_shell will have to wait until we have at least one real DE to driver the work
    <krh> otherwise it's all just going to be guesswork

    So we're going to be doing a lot of guessing. As it turns out, the
    best way to have a good idea is to have a lot of ideas. So we're going
    to try and guess what some of the better ideas might be.

    Daniel:
    I definitely don't see it that way, and without being able to speak for
    Kristian, I daresay he doesn't either. There's a big gap between not
    wanting to start a competitor to GNOME, KDE, Enlightenment, XFCE, LXDE and
    the myriad other environments, and adding titlebar buttons to XWayland. The
    example clients shipped with Weston have titlebar buttons, so I think it's
    fairly safe to say that a) extending the same support to X11 clients is a
    useful goal, and b) including titlebar buttons is clearly not a non-goal for
    Weston.

    Cheers,
    Daniel

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by valeriodean View Post
    For who follow close the mailing list, this is not new, in any case see below a part of email exchange between Scott and Daniel:
    Yes, on reading the thread in more detail, it's actually harder to see what's going on. In the later posts, Scott does seem more unhappy with the core Wayland developers than I'd first thought - on the other hand, it seems he's not even giving them a chance to review and accept his patches. It's hard to tell if this is team politics, or just a misunderstanding over whether Scott's patches are useful to the core code.

  3. #13
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    Cool

    I totally understand Mir now


    Maybe he could contribute to ubuntu.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delgarde View Post
    While your point might be true in some cases, it's irrelevant to the situation at hand. This doesn't seem to be a developer getting angry at upstream developers not accepting his patches - this is someone who's happy cooperating with those devs, but wants to experiment with things that don't match their immediate priorities. No angst or aggression, just a guy creating a new development branch to play in...

    (Edit: well, not much aggression, at least. Granted, there's a little annoyance at upstream being slow, but even so, there's no apparent hostility here)
    Are you sure you read the whole article? My post was highly relevant I was basically reaffirming his point.

    "I myself am not going to waste my time and effort as I have done for the past several months, trying to get even the simplest things pushed upstream. So even if these patches were acceptable, I don't have plans to put forth a large amount of effort to see them upstream. If you want the code, great. It's FOSS, grab it. The general point here is, I don't really plan on going to be making special time to bug upstream anymore because my efforts so far have been shunned, shot down, trolled and ultimately, less-than-appreciated. It's been a year, now I've had enough of the nonsense."

    What exactly qualifies as hostility for you? This does not seem like someone happy cooperating with upstream devs as you claim, and its not a new development branch to play in, branches are usually intended to be merged back with master. He clearly states he never intends to do so or to submit anything back to master for that matter, this is a fork.
    As I said is my previous post, in my opinion poor management of potential contributors is hurting FOSS development more than the lack of devs.
    Last edited by timothyja; 03-24-2013 at 09:46 PM.

  5. #15
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    Pretty interesting, so it seems to be true what Ubuntu developers feared, wayland develoeprs not accepting patches or the ideas they had. So in the end the best decision was to start Mir.

    Only people that is really close to all of this can really know what is happening behind the scenes...

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOne View Post
    Pretty interesting, so it seems to be true what Ubuntu developers feared, wayland develoeprs not accepting patches or the ideas they had. So in the end the best decision was to start Mir.

    Only people that is really close to all of this can really know what is happening behind the scenes...
    Or you can read the mailing list, or the irc logs.

    Either way this guy is just having a repo to experiment/break things in. It's not really a "fork".

    And afaik, Canonical never submitted any patches to wayland or even talk to the developers.
    Last edited by n3wu53r; 03-25-2013 at 12:06 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by timothyja View Post
    Are you sure you read the whole article? My post was highly relevant I was basically reaffirming his point..
    At the time I wrote that, I'd read only the first mailing list post that the article linked to, which mostly sounded like what I was describing - just a new development branch. But I've subsequently read some of the followup posts (such as the one you quote), which have a more unhappy tone.

    Unfortunately, it's hard to see exactly where the issue is - the other Wayland guys have expressed interest in at least some of his patches (like the xwayland titlebar buttons), so it's not like they've just shot him down, rejected all his contributions. I guess there must be some history there that's not apparent without going trawling list archives, but overall it sounds like he's focused on doing stuff that the core devs just aren't interested in dealing with at the moment.

  8. #18
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    Default Ahem

    Quote Originally Posted by n3wu53r View Post
    Or you can read the mailing list, or the irc logs.

    Either way this guy is just having a repo to experiment/break things in. It's not really a "fork".

    And afaik, Canonical never submitted any patches to wayland or even talk to the developers.
    Ahem: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/wayland/...4e1fbe389775f7

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delgarde View Post
    Unfortunately, it's hard to see exactly where the issue is - the other Wayland guys have expressed interest in at least some of his patches (like the xwayland titlebar buttons), so it's not like they've just shot him down, rejected all his contributions. I guess there must be some history there that's not apparent without going trawling list archives, but overall it sounds like he's focused on doing stuff that the core devs just aren't interested in dealing with at the moment.
    Again as I said in my initial post I totally understand where he is coming from. Your last sentence highlights the huge problem with FOSS currently and is what's causing his and others such as myself frustration. Unlike the pretty picture of community based open source projects that is told to young software developers at bed time the real landscape for most FOSS projects is a bunch of commercially backed gatekeepers who like you say have their own priority which is working on what their employer tells them to. This makes sense why would you pay someone to review patches that don't directly benifit your company, but highlights the need to balance projects better with both community and commercial maintainers.

    And l'm not talking about patches being totally ignored as usually the devs do find some downtime eventually to look at them but the problem is it can take months this means pinging the devs every few weeks or so otherwise they will be forgotten about ( or bugging upstream as this developer put it) all the while your frustration builds and you feel undervalued like the developer describes and why wouldnt you. It's all just down to prioritys and management Unfortunately although its even a goal for some projects to increase contributions very few do well at prioritising feedback to New contributions.
    Last edited by timothyja; 03-25-2013 at 02:51 AM.

  10. #20
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    we'd just fork the project and do whatever we want.

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