Page 12 of 17 FirstFirst ... 21011121314 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 161

Thread: Systemd 199 Has Its Own D-Bus Client Library

  1. #111
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    So let me get this straight.... When you can't win an argument you just start making shit up? Really? I bet that rarely works out well for you.
    There is no winning an argument here, I've already won the argument. All you and Frign have on your side is "Well its different. Its not the way we've done it in the past, therefore it sucks." And when I just asked you whether or not you'd use it after time proved that it was perfectly good and usable, you replied that you were thankful that Gentoo gave you the freedom to still not use it. Proving that your argument against systemd is not based on a matter of merit or immaturity in the project, your problem with the project is religious and ideological.

  2. #112
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    287

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    Well the thing is that it was the udev developers who merged udev to systemd. Kay Sievers (~70%) and Gregh K-H have together done around 85% of systemd developemet over the past nine years; both of whom thought that merging the project was appropriate among others. Merging udev to systemd made the developement of udev easier as sharing code and infrastucture with systemd was made possible. Now the makefiles for big and modular projects like systemd get kinda complicated and supporting niche cases like compiling systemd without udev is not something you want to add to that; even more so when there's nothing that would be easier to patch in downstream than just the makefile.

    I think that's up to the upstream to decide... They are under no obligation to support every niche setup you throw at them.
    Oh, dammit, I wanted to wait a while before telling the dude that his anger towards Lennart regarding udev is utterly stupid as Lennart is not the udev maintainer. I've been saying for a while now to watch the eudev talk, because it seems all arguments he had are the same ones that the eudev people "raised".

  3. #113
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bkor View Post
    You change topics again. Your response to me didn't include any question. So what the hell are you on about now? Modularity? Jeez, look at the systemd. There are loads of different components. It is not one big daemon, but a collection of modular parts. Things which can be enabled and disabled with configure flags.

    Now regarding eudev: Those packagers said it made no sense that udev and systemd were merged. This seems to be the same thing as you are saying. What the eudev did was to make a copy of all the code shared between udev and systemd and then remove the systemd only code. This is not logical at all. Aside from this they removed various code that was unneeded, to later add it back again as they eventually discovered they introduced bugs and well, the code was needed.

    Basing your opinions on eudev developers is really not smart. Also calling for modularity but not knowing how modular systemd is, while at the same time suggesting that duplicating code across packages is a good thing: Jeez!
    I havent changed topics at all. You just seem to be incapable of comprehending the topic that I'm on.

    No the eudev fork was made from a version of udev prior to it being merged to systemd. And I'm not talking about build modularity, but about package modularity. But since you don't seem to know what I'm saying then there isnt really much point in repeating myself again is there.

    If you arent capable of understanding what I said the first and second times, then there isnt any point in saying it again a third time.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    Interesting. What OS and version are you using? Which version of the kernel and PulseAudio? Did you change any PulseAudio defaults? What are your hardware specifications?



    I take it that you have never used systemd yourself? Because it works like a dream. Thanks to the awesome work being done by other Gentoo devs, systemd on Gentoo makes the whole setup and managing process much easier. Everything related to system and daemon startup is managed from a single, coherent interface, using unified and easy to understand unit files. And it allows combining all the different functionality in new and exciting ways without any effort. Heck, I would not have even bothered to install a login manager, if a newer version of D-Bus was available in Portage that has a certain bug fixed that prevents systemd user sessions from starting correctly. That's because systemd makes it all much simpler and easier.

    What I don't like is the negative attitude to it without any real justification. Sure, OpenRC works, as it worked before. Sure, it's an amazing tool to use on BSDs. But there is no reason to hate systemd for that. Or Poettering, even more so. Or making it harder for users who do want to take advantage of it to use systemd - which I have heard from some Gentoo developers, when I mentioned systemd, they said that they just don't want to support anything to do with it, citing the long-term plans of upstream that they don't like and ignoring the actual technical merits of the software...
    Thats all good. I'm not at all implying that systemd shouldnt be supported. Of course it should. What I am saying is that it shouldnt be to the exclusion of everything else.

  5. #115
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    There is no winning an argument here, I've already won the argument. All you and Frign have on your side is "Well its different. Its not the way we've done it in the past, therefore it sucks." And when I just asked you whether or not you'd use it after time proved that it was perfectly good and usable, you replied that you were thankful that Gentoo gave you the freedom to still not use it. Proving that your argument against systemd is not based on a matter of merit or immaturity in the project, your problem with the project is religious and ideological.
    I never said anything about who could and could not use it. You seem to be real good at making shit up.

    On the contrary my problem with it is the belief that everyone should have to use it simply because it exists.

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    594

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    No the eudev fork was made from a version of udev prior to it being merged to systemd.
    No it wasn't. Here's the commit where udev was isolated from systemd sources.

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    You didnt answer my question... Why should I do it? It's the upstream packagers job to keep his packages distro agnostic. Gentoo has a goal of keeping there packages as close to upstream as possible.

    Just because the distro package -can- do upstreams work for them does -not- mean they should.
    Gentoo has the goal of keeping close to upstream? Sweet. Then systemd and udev in one package and you should just be changing the symlink for init to be pointing at openrc instead of systemd.

    As far as modularity goes.. I don't think that word means what you think it means. Systemd the project is modular. Thats why you can mix and match as many components as you want at compile time. Or you can just turn them off in the config files at runtime. What you want is a piece-meal setup.

  8. #118
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    No it wasn't. Here's the commit where udev was isolated from systemd sources.
    ok my bad. A simple oversight on my part.

  9. #119
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    1,910

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    I never said anything about who could and could not use it. You seem to be real good at making shit up.

    On the contrary my problem with it is the belief that everyone should have to use it simply because it exists.
    Its the belief that everyone should use it so we can stop arguing about even more minor differences in the core of linux distros. We have enough fragmentation already. Keep your deb vs rpm wars, keep your package management, but lets have SOME similarity and some cohesion.

  10. #120
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Sorry but I disagree completely and I always will. Systemd isnt the solution and it never will be.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •