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Thread: Why Wayland & Weston Were Forked

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    To each their own. Phoronix seems to function mostly adequately even without moderation. For that matter, from what I've seen, the best kind of moderation is usually when moderators don't butt in too easily. Getting too anxious about moderation easily leads into moderator power trips, it's just human nature...
    For the most part I agree, but for a while whenever a BSD-related story was posted it would be swamped with crudely drawn pictures of mascots, flat-out false statements and comments saying that BSD was for 'fags' (i.e. unambiguous trolling).

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by archibald View Post
    For the most part I agree, but for a while whenever a BSD-related story was posted it would be swamped with crudely drawn pictures of mascots, flat-out false statements and comments saying that BSD was for 'fags' (i.e. unambiguous trolling).
    Yeah, that's definitely the time when moderators should butt in. There's a good litmus test for figuring out when moderation is needed IMO - can the community handle it itself? If not - if someone is trolling, spamming, acting really obnoxiously and making everyone generally miserable, if the existence of some user is decreasing the quality of the community, then it's best to ban them. Otherwise it's usually best to butt out and let the community handle itself.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniels View Post
    As well as Qt and Clutter.
    As well as a working input system

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by airlied View Post
    Oh I missed the bit where I've forked a project because I couldn't handle being reviewed, then posted a long diatribe on a news site to garner attention, instead of just doing anything useful.
    So you think that contributing to this fighting is 'doing anything useful'?

    At this point, soreau is trying his best to persuade the world he was being reasonable, if we don't reply, some people out there will go on thinking that he was, and in months/years we'll hear the story retold wrong. The thing is he's making shit up to justify thing, he's writing a version of history that nobody else agrees with.
    so I should let him? because that definitely won't do any long term damage.
    And yet you managed to make yourself look as immature as he did in the process, and all this attention has called into question the development process in the Wayland project and many people have expressed disappointment at the level of vitriol that has been spread out over the internet with this.

    I understand you probably don't have much experience of open-source, so I'm happy to let your comment go, but this isn't tarnishing open sources image any more than the 50 times its happened before on 50 other projects. I don't see Linux development stopped because of it, maybe you can show me where its doing the damage with some citations.

    Dave.
    If you had an ounce of common sense, you would have realised that businesses prefer to back projects that are stable and aren't controversial. You and soreau have called that perception in regards to Wayland into doubt. Businesses may choose not to support Wayland in the future because of this instability and lack of confidence in the project.
    And if you want an article that helps to explain this, with some examples, you could read this.

    http://uk.enterpriseefficiency.com/a...&doc_id=258765

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by intellivision View Post
    So you think that contributing to this fighting is 'doing anything useful'?


    And yet you managed to make yourself look as immature as he did in the process, and all this attention has called into question the development process in the Wayland project and many people have expressed disappointment at the level of vitriol that has been spread out over the internet with this.


    If you had an ounce of common sense, you would have realised that businesses prefer to back projects that are stable and aren't controversial. You and soreau have called that perception in regards to Wayland into doubt. Businesses may choose not to support Wayland in the future because of this instability and lack of confidence in the project.
    And if you want an article that helps to explain this, with some examples, you could read this.

    http://uk.enterpriseefficiency.com/a...&doc_id=258765
    Okay all the companies using Linux and X.org for years are obviously avoiding it then, because XFree86/X.org had much bigger fights than this, so again you are speaking crap. This article you linked to is an "opinion" piece, and I'd say my opinion is just as meaningful as his, since I interact with a lot more companies using Linux and participate in the community.

    Dave.

  6. #126
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    It seems like a strange article... suggests that IT admins are going to re-think their use of Linux (presumably stable enterprise distros like RHEL) because of complaints that a new installer was dropped into Fedora (a not-quite-bleeding-edge-but-close distro) before it was quite ready ?

    I thought Alan Cox moved from RH to Intel 4 years ago... the article suggests he left RH while making comments about Fedora but AFAICS that is simply wrong, whether accidental or deliberate.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by varikonniemi View Post
    That's called competent moderation. For some reason it seems phoronix has taken a stance of almost non-existent moderation.
    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    To each their own. Phoronix seems to function mostly adequately even without moderation. For that matter, from what I've seen, the best kind of moderation is usually when moderators don't butt in too easily. Getting too anxious about moderation easily leads into moderator power trips, it's just human nature...
    I agree both that phoronix seems to be significantly lacking in moderation, and that dedicated moderators can be problematic. I think the voting systems used by reddit and slashdot seem to work well. I might even be up for helping to implement something like that on phoronix.


    Soreau is still at it:

    --- Log opened Tue Apr 02 00:19:07 2013
    00:19 <soreau> Now. I hope this might teach you a lesson. Even though people might not seem like they're learning the way you want them to, as long as they're not doing intentional malicious acts, it's harmless, Sam Spilbury and I go back a long way. I am now happy that I declined their offers when hiring smspillaz
    00:20 <soreau> in retrospect
    00:20 <soreau> I didn't realize how much I know and how much community power I have until I spread my wings a notch
    00:21 <soreau> so thanks for pushing me over the edge you knuckle fucker :)
    00:21 * soreau been needing to do this for a long time now
    00:22 <soreau> who's trollin' who now?
    --- Log closed Tue Apr 02 00:27:56 2013

    No missing context, no participation from me. Private chat, time is EDT.
    (I have no idea why he brought up Sam Spilbury / smspillaz or what he's trying to say about him. But I do know that smspillaz is not joining soreau's project.)

    I wish him the best. I'm sure there will continue to be useful products of his efforts. I just wish he would find a source of motivation other than being unkind to people.

  8. #128
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    I think the voting systems used by reddit and slashdot seem to work well.
    It's absolutely horrible. It promotes groupthink and a "follow-the-masses" mentality. It shuts out independent thought, and you will never find it when it's hidden by being modded to oblivion. It would amount to censorship by the dominating opinion, Fox News in other words.

    Remember, just because someone modded it troll does not mean it is. It means it offended that person, no more or no less.

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darxus View Post
    I agree both that phoronix seems to be significantly lacking in moderation, and that dedicated moderators can be problematic. I think the voting systems used by reddit and slashdot seem to work well. I might even be up for helping to implement something like that on phoronix.
    I'm up for any moderation help... Right now the moderators are basically me and Deanjo. Both him and I are basically limited to deleting spam as we're already bottlenecked or banning accounts when seeing it's blatant trolling and nothing but trolling.

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoronix View Post
    Phoronix: Why Wayland & Weston Were Forked

    Last week, Wayland/Weston was forked by a long-time contributor, Scott Moreau. The fork of the Wayland/Weston display server ended up becoming known as Northfield/Norwood, following disagreements within the Wayland development camp. Scott Moreau was ultimately banned from the Wayland mailing list and IRC channel, so he's written an exclusive, independent article for Phoronix to explain his actions and why he felt a fork of the Wayland display server protocol and the reference Weston compositor were necessary.

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=18588
    Two things.
    1. Linux devs have ego problems.
    2. There really needs to be a foundation that can manage and develop standard APIs for every part of the OS. Otherwise it is just too difficult to progress the Linux OS forward in a way that is compatible with how desktop and laptop expect to use their devices.

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