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Thread: Is Valve's Steam Client Bad & Damaging For Linux?

  1. #21
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    I think you have to be very shortsighted if you don't see how beneficial steam is for linux. People that like to speak about freedom - software freedom, but what about people's freedom. Should people stop using closed source software just because you think it is unethical? Come on, if you don't want to use it grab a copy of ututo or whatever and stop complaining. Nobody is trying to mess with your freedom to choose crappy software.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan1024188 View Post
    You are not a developer, huh? You do not know how hard it is to battle fragmentation on Linux. If I was an enterprise, I would partner up with Canonical too.
    You're not a linux developer huh? You don't know how hard it is to battle this FUD. There's this thing you see it's called the Linux Standards Base, which lays out common libraries such as Qt and GTK, and Qt in particular has this nice thing called ABI and API compatibility across major versions and you can target the earliest version of it that the distros you care about are going to have, and still compile it against the latest (assuming you're not crossing major version lines), and if you're really worried about it you can just use static linking and bundle it in. The only thing that's even arguably an issue along those lines is supplementary software like service scripts, but systemd is fixing that issue.

    Yes you can screw things up by hardcoding paths and such instead of using environmental variables but I'm going to assume you're not that stupid.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    I have already said my view on this. Steam is bad - I will never accept its EULA or its DRM, - but at the same time it's a good tool for creating interest in the GNU/Linux platform, which could lead to more open-source efforts in the long run. So let's allow people who don't value their freedom to create more interest in the platform that is friendly to us, people who do value it. In the mean while, we have HIB, Kickstarter and Desura.
    No offense but that's a very narrow view. How is supporting closed source companies not valuing our freedoms? Apples and oranges. I don't have a right to the source code of a Linux software just because it runs on Linux. And I WANT Steam to be ported along with it's massive library. If I could get every dev on Steam to start porting their games to Linux, even if those games were not open source, I'd be happy. I value my freedom. Freedom of choice to use Linux instead of windows.

  4. #24
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    Open Source is great for the platform itself, but for some things being closed source is mandatory. Besides steam itself is not LINUX, its an optional application that can be installed...its not like a Proprietary Display server or something that will be included in all distros as a default....

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    I have already said my view on this. Steam is bad - I will never accept its EULA or its DRM, - but at the same time it's a good tool for creating interest in the GNU/Linux platform, which could lead to more open-source efforts in the long run. So let's allow people who don't value their freedom to create more interest in the platform that is friendly to us, people who do value it. In the mean while, we have HIB, Kickstarter and Desura.
    Agreed for the most part, but the problem is that the Humble guys are becoming more and more willing to just distribute Steam keys. I wish we could count on them like we used to, but since the THQ Bundle they have gotten less and less reliable (I am looking at their weekly sales here).

    I can accept Steam being there for those who want it, but it has actually recently caused me some concern as more and more studios are just trying to get on Greenlight instead of looking at alternative distribution like many used to. People screaming about it simply being a choice should also realize that some choices could be being robbed from those of us who do decide to opt out of it merely due to Steam's dominance. And Steam's monopoly has been causing some harm to PC gaming, as any monopoly would.

    The screeching in this thread is unreal though...

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomyne View Post
    No offense but that's a very narrow view. How is supporting closed source companies not valuing our freedoms? Apples and oranges. I don't have a right to the source code of a Linux software just because it runs on Linux.
    Did he even ever say that he wanted the source code? He said he could not accept the EULA and DRM, which means he is doing the honest thing by not using it. You should all calm down and stop acting like someone sacrificed a baby on your doorstep or something.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescience500 View Post
    As a Fedora user, I can assure you're guess is very wrong. It took me a great deal of time to get the steam client to work. It also took a a lot of effort to get some of my games to work. Some of my games I still haven't gotten to work.
    Genuine interest: What kind of issue's did you bump into?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prescience500 View Post
    There is a distro neutral approach. They could have a separate Steam install directory. Sometimes this would mean duplicate installations, but it would take most of the headache out.
    So you are saying you had file collissions? Do you mean a new steam installation for every game?

    Quote Originally Posted by Prescience500 View Post
    I promise you that no one without extensive knowledge of Linux will get steam running on anything other than a debian based distro.
    lol .

  8. #28
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    Cool Mixed bag

    I think it's a mixed bag:
    Even though I'd never use Steam personally because I am a strong supporter of free software, I guess it is a great way to make GNU/Linux more popular among inexperienced users and, which is more important, hardware vendors.

    The only thing we have to take care of is that we must not be happy with binary blobs when it comes to hardware support in most areas; the spirit of free software lives from having access to the sources code and being able to freely modify and share it.

    Granted, a gaming-platform like Steam is in itself proprietary and is not as sustainable as having bought a CD and _owning_ a copy of a game (which I also prefer), but when it is the direction of the current market and the common users are not eager to stand up against it, I guess there is not much we can do about it.

    Having watched the recent Valve-presentation, they also made their point clear: They want to make more money, like any other company, especially with most Chinese computer-users who have new hardware but old Operating Systems, rendering the Software-Implemented DirectX unusable for newer games. But they are able to run ones with OpenGL, which is implemented on the Hardware-side.

    With Microsoft's latest shift to Windows 8 and offering an own store, their move has been almost predetermined, because now it's all about getting the most users they can.

    It is an unforgiving market.
    Last edited by frign; 04-07-2013 at 12:58 PM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamish Wilson View Post
    Did he even ever say that he wanted the source code? He said he could not accept the EULA and DRM, which means he is doing the honest thing by not using it. You should all calm down and stop acting like someone sacrificed a baby on your doorstep or something.
    He said that we weren't valuing our freedoms by embracing closed source software.

    The DRM isn't required. A lot of games ship on Steam without it.

    So stop being so defensive.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prescience500 View Post
    As a Fedora user, I can assure you're guess is very wrong. It took me a great deal of time to get the steam client to work. It also took a a lot of effort to get some of my games to work. Some of my games I still haven't gotten to work. There is a distro neutral approach. They could have a separate Steam install directory. Sometimes this would mean duplicate installations, but it would take most of the headache out. I promise you that no one without extensive knowledge of Linux will get steam running on anything other than a debian based distro.
    That's not true. Gentoo has an ebuild available in an overlay. Once you have the overlay set up, steam is just an emerge away. The ebuild includes support for flash and even pulls in some dependencies that games are known to have since the games install outside of portage.

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