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Thread: "Very Disruptive" Change Hurts ARM Linux Support

  1. #11
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    [QUOTE=droidhacker;325109]It has just now become completely clear that the zealots at the FSF need to get laid. BADLY.

    The clause:


    In other words, use at your own risk, fuck you.

    Quite frankly, I wouldn't change this license at all. There is no reason to. In fact, what I would do... is fork the GPL, and modify it to ALLOW this.[/QUOTE]

    The FSF did exactly that it is called GPLv3....

  2. #12
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    It would be interesting to have a list of all the licenses, propietary blobs and such used in Linux kernel. Having some clarity in all this licensing stuff might help the community to avoid situations like this in the future.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by stan View Post
    Why not use BSD-licensed code from one of the BSDs that support ARM?
    Probably they use the same lib but do not have this conflict.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    It would be interesting to have a list of all the licenses, propietary blobs and such used in Linux kernel. Having some clarity in all this licensing stuff might help the community to avoid situations like this in the future.
    Yea, the whole situation is giving me a headache. So the kernel is GPLv2, except that some source files are not GPLv2, and except that there are firmware blobs that are licensed restrictively... And then after compilation is' still GPLv2 as a whole? Arrgh...

  5. #15
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    [QUOTE=droidhacker;325109]It has just now become completely clear that the zealots at the FSF need to get laid. BADLY.

    The clause:


    In other words, use at your own risk, fuck you.

    Quite frankly, I wouldn't change this license at all. There is no reason to. In fact, what I would do... is fork the GPL, and modify it to ALLOW this.[/QUOTE]

    The FSF did exactly that it is called GPLv3....

    Edit:

    The relevant clause of the GPLv3:

    7. Additional Terms.
    “Additional permissions” are terms that supplement the terms of this License by making exceptions from one or more of its conditions. Additional permissions that are applicable to the entire Program shall be treated as though they were included in this License, to the extent that they are valid under applicable law. If additional permissions apply only to part of the Program, that part may be used separately under those permissions, but the entire Program remains governed by this License without regard to the additional permissions.

    When you convey a copy of a covered work, you may at your option remove any additional permissions from that copy, or from any part of it. (Additional permissions may be written to require their own removal in certain cases when you modify the work.) You may place additional permissions on material, added by you to a covered work, for which you have or can give appropriate copyright permission.

    Notwithstanding any other provision of this License, for material you add to a covered work, you may (if authorized by the copyright holders of that material) supplement the terms of this License with terms:

    a) Disclaiming warranty or limiting liability differently from the terms of sections 15 and 16 of this License; or
    b) Requiring preservation of specified reasonable legal notices or author attributions in that material or in the Appropriate Legal Notices displayed by works containing it; or
    c) Prohibiting misrepresentation of the origin of that material, or requiring that modified versions of such material be marked in reasonable ways as different from the original version; or
    d) Limiting the use for publicity purposes of names of licensors or authors of the material; or
    e) Declining to grant rights under trademark law for use of some trade names, trademarks, or service marks; or
    f) Requiring indemnification of licensors and authors of that material by anyone who conveys the material (or modified versions of it) with contractual assumptions of liability to the recipient, for any liability that these contractual assumptions directly impose on those licensors and authors.
    All other non-permissive additional terms are considered “further restrictions” within the meaning of section 10. If the Program as you received it, or any part of it, contains a notice stating that it is governed by this License along with a term that is a further restriction, you may remove that term. If a license document contains a further restriction but permits relicensing or conveying under this License, you may add to a covered work material governed by the terms of that license document, provided that the further restriction does not survive such relicensing or conveying.

    If you add terms to a covered work in accord with this section, you must place, in the relevant source files, a statement of the additional terms that apply to those files, or a notice indicating where to find the applicable terms.

    Additional terms, permissive or non-permissive, may be stated in the form of a separately written license, or stated as exceptions; the above requirements apply either way.
    (Bolding mine).

    The bolded bit was added to get compatibility the Apache License v 2.0 which has the following clause:
    9. Accepting Warranty or Additional Liability. While redistributing the Work or Derivative Works thereof, You may choose to offer, and charge a fee for, acceptance of support, warranty, indemnity, or other liability obligations and/or rights consistent with this License. However, in accepting such obligations, You may act only on Your own behalf and on Your sole responsibility, not on behalf of any other Contributor, and only if You agree to indemnify, defend, and hold each Contributor harmless for any liability incurred by, or claims asserted against, such Contributor by reason of your accepting any such warranty or additional liability
    but EA used it for the source code release of Simcity, Micropolis(bolded bit mine):

    ADDITIONAL TERMS per GNU GPL Section 7

    No trademark or publicity rights are granted. This license does NOT
    give you any right, title or interest in the trademark SimCity or any
    other Electronic Arts trademark. You may not distribute any
    modification of this program using the trademark SimCity or claim any
    affliation or association with Electronic Arts Inc. or its employees.

    Any propagation or conveyance of this program must include this
    copyright notice and these terms.

    If you convey this program (or any modifications of it) and assume
    contractual liability for the program to recipients of it, you agree
    to indemnify Electronic Arts for any liability that those contractual
    assumptions impose on Electronic Arts.


    You may not misrepresent the origins of this program; modified
    versions of the program must be marked as such and not identified as
    the original program.

    This disclaimer supplements the one included in the General Public
    License. TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THIS
    PROGRAM IS PROVIDED TO YOU "AS IS," WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY
    OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF
    SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU. ELECTRONIC ARTS
    DISCLAIMS ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTIES,
    INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY,
    FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY
    RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING,
    USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE. ELECTRONIC ARTS DOES NOT WARRANT AGAINST
    INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE PROGRAM; THAT THE PROGRAM WILL
    MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS; THAT OPERATION OF THE PROGRAM WILL BE
    UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, OR THAT THE PROGRAM WILL BE COMPATIBLE
    WITH THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE OR THAT ANY ERRORS IN THE PROGRAM WILL BE
    CORRECTED. NO ORAL OR WRITTEN ADVICE PROVIDED BY ELECTRONIC ARTS OR
    ANY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE SHALL CREATE A WARRANTY. SOME
    JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF OR LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED
    WARRANTIES OR THE LIMITATIONS ON THE APPLICABLE STATUTORY RIGHTS OF A
    CONSUMER, SO SOME OR ALL OF THE ABOVE EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS MAY
    NOT APPLY TO YOU.
    and id has used it for its source code releases since being acquired by ZeniMax(bolding mine):

    ADDITIONAL TERMS APPLICABLE TO THE Doom 3 BFG Edition GPL Source Code.

    The following additional terms ("Additional Terms") supplement and modify
    the GNU General Public License, Version 3 ("GPL") applicable to the Doom 3
    BFG Edition GPL Source Code ("Doom 3 BFG Edition Source Code"). In addition
    to the terms and conditions of the GPL, the Doom 3 BFG Edition Source Code is
    subject to the further restrictions below.

    1. Replacement of Section 15. Section 15 of the GPL shall be deleted in its
    entirety and replaced with the following:

    "15. Disclaimer of Warranty.

    THE PROGRAM IS PROVIDED WITHOUT ANY WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED,
    INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR
    PURPOSE, NON-INFRINGEMENT, TITLE AND MERCHANTABILITY. THE PROGRAM IS BEING
    DELIVERED OR MADE AVAILABLE "AS IS", "WITH ALL FAULTS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OR
    REPRESENTATION. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE
    PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST
    OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION."

    2. Replacement of Section 16. Section 16 of the GPL shall be deleted in its
    entirety and replaced with the following:

    "16. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.

    UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHALL ANY COPYRIGHT HOLDER OR ITS AFFILIATES, OR ANY
    OTHER PARTY WHO MODIFIES AND/OR CONVEYS THE PROGRAM AS PERMITTED ABOVE, BE
    LIABLE TO YOU, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, FOR ANY
    DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL,
    INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES ARISING FROM, OUT OF OR IN
    CONNECTION WITH THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE PROGRAM OR OTHER DEALINGS WITH
    THE PROGRAM(INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO LOSS OF DATA OR DATA BEING RENDERED
    INACCURATE OR LOSSES SUSTAINED BY YOU OR THIRD PARTIES OR A FAILURE OF THE
    PROGRAM TO OPERATE WITH ANY OTHER PROGRAMS), WHETHER OR NOT ANY COPYRIGHT
    HOLDER OR SUCH OTHER PARTY RECEIVES NOTICE OF ANY SUCH DAMAGES AND WHETHER
    OR NOT SUCH DAMAGES COULD HAVE BEEN FORESEEN."

    3. LEGAL NOTICES; NO TRADEMARK LICENSE; ORIGIN. You must reproduce faithfully
    all trademark, copyright and other proprietary and legal notices on any copies
    of the Program or any other required author attributions. This license does
    not grant you rights to use any copyright holder or any other party’s name,
    logo, or trademarks. Neither the name of the copyright holder or its
    affiliates, or any other party who modifies and/or conveys the Program may be
    used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without
    specific prior written permission. The origin of the Program must not be
    misrepresented; you must not claim that you wrote the original Program.

    Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be
    misrepresented as being the original Program.

    4. INDEMNIFICATION. IF YOU CONVEY A COVERED WORK AND AGREE WITH ANY RECIPIENT
    OF THAT COVERED WORK THAT YOU WILL ASSUME ANY LIABILITY FOR THAT COVERED WORK,
    YOU HEREBY AGREE TO INDEMNIFY, DEFEND AND HOLD HARMLESS THE OTHER LICENSORS
    AND AUTHORS OF THAT COVERED WORK FOR ANY DAMAEGS, DEMANDS, CLAIMS, LOSSES,
    CAUSES OF ACTION, LAWSUITS, JUDGMENTS EXPENSES (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION
    REASONABLE ATTORNEYS' FEES AND EXPENSES) OR ANY OTHER LIABLITY ARISING FROM,
    RELATED TO OR IN CONNECTION WITH YOUR ASSUMPTIONS OF LIABILITY
    .
    ZeniMax did the same when they released the source code to Arkane's Arx Fatalis.
    Last edited by Kristian Joensen; 04-10-2013 at 03:58 PM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by plonoma View Post
    The GPL also contains the good bits.
    It's very crappy to say the one you give is the only good one.
    Forking the GPL to put the PERSONAL indemnification of a specific person and, or organization in it is stupid.
    You're obviously stupid, because it is almost a given that it is NECESSARY to fork the GPL to ALLOW COMPATIBILITY with licenses that indemnify persons or organizations. Indemnity is important in licensing, and especially FREE licensing. Why would I possibly want to give my work away for free when some dipshit customer of YOURS will sue me, and it ends up my defence is at my own expense? That makes no sense at all!

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristian Joensen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    It has just now become completely clear that the zealots at the FSF need to get laid. BADLY.

    The clause:


    In other words, use at your own risk, fuck you.

    Quite frankly, I wouldn't change this license at all. There is no reason to.[B] In fact, what I would do... is fork the GPL, and modify it to ALLOW this.
    The FSF did exactly that it is called GPLv3....
    You may consider actually reading GPLv3....
    It is a WHOLE LOT different than just indemnification.

    In fact, you may want to look up the reason why Torvalds REJECTED v3. I'll give you a hint: It has NOTHING to do with indemnification.
    Last edited by droidhacker; 04-10-2013 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #18
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    Linus has lots of opinions. His opinion about GPLv3 however is entirely irrelevant, since he does not and can not single-handedly decide the licensing of the Linux kernel.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by droidhacker View Post
    It has just now become completely clear that the zealots at the FSF need to get laid. BADLY.

    The clause:


    In other words, use at your own risk, fuck you.

    Quite frankly, I wouldn't change this license at all. There is no reason to. In fact, what I would do... is fork the GPL, and modify it to ALLOW this.
    That clause has a stark resemblance to:

    THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM “AS IS” WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.
    FSF is being a bunch of nitwitty asshats here, without a freakin' shadow of doubt.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ishayu View Post
    FSF is being a bunch of nitwitty asshats here, without a freakin' shadow of doubt.
    I think that the problem they see here is not that it's provided as-is (that's part of the GPL in the first place), but that indemnification is personal. That's just really not needed.

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