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Thread: Mir Display Server Now Supports VT Switching

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    I don't think GTK+ and EFL community has said that they won't support Mir in toolkit level either (as long as Canonical does the work). Digia is definitely supporting Wayland with their Qt Compositor (a toolbox for making Qt based Wayland compositors, here's a interesting talk about it) and QtWayland efforts though.
    GTK is mostly controlled by Red Hat, there's outside contributors, but a lot of GTK devs are paid by Red Hat. And Wayland is Red Hat's birth child, so its PROBABLY a safe bet that they wont support Mir in mainline.

    rasterman, EFL's main dev, has already said they are supporting and backing Wayland and that Mir is just politics. That pretty heavily implies that they arent gonna support Mir in mainline.

    That leave Qt, and KDE. Martin has already said no distro-specific patches will be accepted in Kwin, and right now the only one using or going to be using Mir is Ubuntu so support of Mir in Kwin is out of the window unless other distros pick up Mir (That ARENT ubuntu based -.-)

    Digia may be swayed to support Mir just for commercial reasons, and if so, awesome, good for Mir. But Ubuntu is still gonna have to support out of tree patches for EFL, GTK and KDElibs

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerdopolis View Post
    If its deployed before Wayland, then that would likely mean that they didn't take the time to think their protocol through, and that in the future it's likely going to have problems, or they are going to have to break it. And it's going to have implementation bugs too.

    All Wayland really needs AFAIK is a few DE related protocol additions, and a DE that gets ported, and a login manager. Wayland is also soon to gain subsurfaces, foreign surfaces

    If Canonical rushes with Mir, and somehow deploys it before a major distro deploys Wayland, then the odds are that Mir is going to be extremly buggy on its release, and it's going to be an inferior protocol
    Not necessarily. Canonical is making use of a lot of groundwork already done for Wayland. If Canonical can get more man hours into Mir, that doesn't equate to rushing it. With regards to the bugs, Mir is well tested where Wayland isn't (That was one of the issues Canonical had with Wayland if I recall correctly).

    Also, Mir is not a protocol nor does it implement a protocol.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    GTK is mostly controlled by Red Hat, there's outside contributors, but a lot of GTK devs are paid by Red Hat. And Wayland is Red Hat's birth child, so its PROBABLY a safe bet that they wont support Mir in mainline.
    Considering that GTK+ already has three backends and it's used by numerous applications, including stuff like Lightworks, I don't see them not supporting Mir in the future. It would be pretty unprofessional too _if_ Canonical commits to maintaining the Mir backend. Also I don't believe that Red Hat has nearly as much control over GTK+ as you imply or that they would abuse that position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    rasterman, EFL's main dev, has already said they are supporting and backing Wayland and that Mir is just politics. That pretty heavily implies that they arent gonna support Mir in mainline.
    It might be true for EFL but I doubt it. The unfortuante fact is that Ubuntu is by far the most popular desktop Linux distribution. Of course Enlightement will never support Mir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    That leave Qt, and KDE. Martin has already said no distro-specific patches will be accepted in Kwin, and right now the only one using or going to be using Mir is Ubuntu so support of Mir in Kwin is out of the window unless other distros pick up Mir (That ARENT ubuntu based -.-)
    The compositors are pointless in this context. Qt already has a Mir QPA plugin and of course Digia wants to provide top of the class support for Ubuntu as it's quite important platform for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    Digia may be swayed to support Mir just for commercial reasons, and if so, awesome, good for Mir. But Ubuntu is still gonna have to support out of tree patches for EFL, GTK and KDElibs
    KDE Frameworks (kdelibs) doesn't depend on any particular windowing system, I mean it runs natively on Windows too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jayrulez
    Mir is well tested where Wayland isn't (That was one of the issues Canonical had with Wayland if I recall correctly).
    It has more unit tests... it's by no means "more tested". It's APIs are not stable, things are still under heavy developement, nothing is finished. Wayland however already has stable API and has had a lot more time to stabilize.

    Quote Originally Posted by jayrulez
    Also, Mir is not a protocol nor does it implement a protocol.
    It is and it does. It's also a compositor.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    It is and it does. It's also a compositor.
    You are right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    ...

    That leave Qt, and KDE. Martin has already said no distro-specific patches will be accepted in Kwin, and right now the only one using or going to be using Mir is Ubuntu so support of Mir in Kwin is out of the window unless other distros pick up Mir (That ARENT ubuntu based -.-)

    Digia may be swayed to support Mir just for commercial reasons, and if so, awesome, good for Mir. But Ubuntu is still gonna have to support out of tree patches for EFL, GTK and KDElibs
    They're doing an in-house SDL port as well. Considering their relationship with Valve (who employs Sam Lantinga) they may have a better chance with this one.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    Considering that GTK+ already has three backends and it's used by numerous applications, including stuff like Lightworks, I don't see them not supporting Mir in the future. It would be pretty unprofessional too _if_ Canonical commits to maintaining the Mir backend.
    That depends on their policy on distro-specific patches, the effect it will have on the size, performance, and code-base of gtk, the quality of the submission, and how much they trust Canonical to actually maintain the code properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    It might be true for EFL but I doubt it. The unfortuante fact is that Ubuntu is by far the most popular desktop Linux distribution.
    What is the advantage to EFL of accepting the Mir patches rather than letting Canonical keep them as downstream patches? How would accepting the patches into their mainline code base benefit anyone, besides giving Canonical some free advertisement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    What is the advantage to EFL of accepting the Mir patches rather than letting Canonical keep them as downstream patches? How would accepting the patches into their mainline code base benefit anyone, besides giving Canonical some free advertisement?
    It would benefit any other distribution that decides to officially support Mir perhaps.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    What is the advantage to EFL of accepting the Mir patches rather than letting Canonical keep them as downstream patches? How would accepting the patches into their mainline code base benefit anyone, besides giving Canonical some free advertisement?
    I think it's more about providing the best possible experience for the quite important platform. From application developer's perspective it would give more confidence that EFL properly supports Ubuntu.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by intellivision View Post
    It would benefit any other distribution that decides to officially support Mir perhaps.
    We can cross that road when (or if) we get to it.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    I think it's more about providing the best possible experience for the quite important platform.
    How would the experience change?

    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    From application developer's perspective it would give more confidence that EFL properly supports Ubuntu.
    But EFL would not really support Mir. Under your scenario, no EFL developers would contribute. Canonical would be the one supporting Ubuntu in EFL.

    So in that way it would be a lie, implying that the EFL developers intend to provide support for Mir when they really don't. If Ubuntu decided some time down the road to stop contributing, the Mir support would be left with no support at all.

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