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Thread: Ouya Game Console Performance Is Disappointing

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    The '40s called. They need someone with good knowledge of eniac's low level workings.... And yes Java is portable. They write the JVM so you don't have to rewrite your program. That is portability from the end-user point of view. And nobody writes for XBox1 for fuck's sake.
    And this is why a run-off-the-mill Java app like Glassfish runs fine on one Java VM and yet not on the other - because it's just 'soooooo portable'.

    Java programmers as ever - too stupid to figure out that when they're about to shoot, their rifle is aimed at their feet and they are in risk of losing their legs in the process.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    Google is a shit company?? They handle more queries per second than you can possibly count!
    Of course they do - their partnership with the NSA has paid off dividends Sherlock. Doesn't mean they don't suck.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squarepusher View Post
    Jealous of what? Fame? Money? A shitty engine that looks worse than a 1996 software-rendered game - ie. Quake? A game engine that tells you with a straight face that 4GB of RAM is 'not enough' or that chugs like hell unless you're running it on a Core i7?



    If your job is about 'solving hard problems', then surely you could have solved this little 'problem' for yourself -

    the 'Minecraft' you're running on your Kindle Fire is NOT, I repeat, NOT, a Java-based app. None of the 'mobile' versions of Minecraft are.

    Now you go and guess why that is, son?



    Your 'definition' of fun must be very different from mine. But then again, you are probably in your late teens/early twenties and are not of my generation.

    The 'indie games' you think are so high and mighty frankly for the most part consist of SNES game rejects that would have been laughed at by any SNES/Genesis gamer back in the day. (newsflash - those games looked the way they did due to technical restrictions and no, not due to inadequacy - indie 'devs' might want to take note). Another case of degeneration right there - the shitty 'indie games' that are held up as 'innovative' and 'great'. Ie. Jonathan Blow's tired 'Mario Bros with rewind' clone gets held up as a 'masterpiece' and the same for his soon-to-be 'Myst clone'.
    Okay, you're just being rude for the sake of doing it now. You either can't or won't attempt to understand what I'm saying to you, and you refuse to show me the least bit of respect. You're the mental midget who's out of touch with reality here, not me. You live in the "glory" of the past, and want all the kids to get off your lawn. But you're irrelevant.

    Hmm. You don't know anything about me, my tastes, or my preferences. But I admire how you don't let that stop you from forging ahead with baseless accusations. And as to my age? I think I should probably be calling you "son". But I don't do that because I'm not an ass. (You've lost all semblance of being deserving of respect at this point, yet I persist because I'm better than you.)

    So maintain your moldy code base and never touch anything other than C++. Let other stupid people code in those newfangled languages whilst you make those Gamecube ports. However, if you actually want to have a civil and useful discussion, I'm willing to give you another shot. If not, then that's great too. Just crawl off and die somewhere where the rest of us won't be distracted by the smell.

    Sincerely,
    Larian ^_^
    Last edited by Larian; 04-21-2013 at 02:53 PM.

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Larian View Post
    Okay, you're just being rude for the sake of doing it now. You either can't or won't attempt to understand what I'm saying to you, and you refuse to show me the least bit of respect. You're the mental midget who's out of touch with reality here, not me. You live in the "glory" of the past, and want all the kids to get off your lawn. But you're irrelevant.

    And as to my age? I think I should probably be calling you "son". But I don't do that because I'm not an ass. (You've lost all semblance of being deserving of respect at this point, yet I persist because I'm better than you.)

    So maintain your moldy code base and never touch anything other than C++. Let other stupid people code in those newfangled languages whilst you make those Gamecube ports.

    Sincerely,
    Larian ^_^
    Says the guy who talks about others being 'rude' - while I so far have never resorted to one 'insult' or called for somebody to die.

    If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Swearing like mad and saying people should die shows you can't handle an argument with wit and tact. It is a sign of weakness and inadequacy on your part.

    So maintain your moldy code base and never touch anything other than C++. Let other stupid people code in those newfangled languages whilst you make those Gamecube ports. However, if you actually want to have a civil and useful discussion, I'm willing to give you another shot. If not, then that's great too. Just crawl off and die somewhere where the rest of us won't be distracted by the smell.
    You actually operate under the assumption that the business world has a place for all of the shitty 'toy languages' your mind can conjure up.

    Trust me - if you were counting your Java/C# eggs before they actually hatched, I'd feel very insecure about your position in the jobs market right now. Have a lot of fun with that because performance-focused coding will start becoming more and more a priority as we target ever-slower platforms (especially ones where runtime performance is governed by battery usage - it pays to be high performing').

    However, if you actually want to have a civil and useful discussion, I'm willing to give you another shot
    You're probably not a person I'd even want to talk to in the first place, so it isn't so much a case of 'willing to give you another shot' more that I frankly don't know who the hell you are and why I should even care about you and your argument. Notice that it is you engaging me in a conversation - I didn't ask you anything at all nor did I even ask you to start commenting (nor did you actually make a single point - not to mention you didn't even know Minecraft Pocket Edition on Kindle Fire is C++, not Java, which craps all over your own argument anyway). I'd have to say at this point that I really have zero interest in your opinion, so yeah, I'll brief you about the 'dying part' as soon as we get there - that might take another good 40 years though so I hope you can be as patient in this regard as you are of the garbage-collecting VMs you seem to like.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 04-21-2013 at 03:05 PM.

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post

    Actually Xbox360 had (or has don't know) that XNA that is basically .NET C# (which is managed code). So even Microsoft thinks that a VM is good. Just that they didn't choose Java because they have their own platoform to push.
    It had - XNA is dead (and .NET C# by the looks of it won't last very long either judging by how Microsoft is already 'recommending' to Metro developers that they code in C++11 - so the handwriting is on the wall - must suck if your 'career' hinges on MS keeping a language alive).

    But let me break this to you - XNA was for kiddies at universities. No serious commercial game developer would ever touch it because of severe performance issues.

    Real developers got themselves a developer's kit - it costs big bucks, it's called an XDK. It integrates with VS2010 (or 2012) - the compiler is MIcrosoft Visual C++ - no higher-level language at all. You can compile your code in C++ (11 - although only partial support) and C89. That's it. That's the current state of development here.

    All of your commercial Xbox 360 games are made with this. Zero - I repeat zero - are made with the (now dead) XNA crap.

    I repeat - the 'managed VM' was just for the kids and 'hobbyists' - it was not a serious proposal for real developers. You would know this if you had ever programmed in any professional capacity for this thing. Obviously you don't.

    Sony actively 'gimped' their Vita 'public SDK' in the same way - no serious game developer would even think of touching it because it being reliant on C# means it is 'intentionally self-neutered' - not to mention they 'neutered' it in other ways as well.

    Sorry but your managed environments' are still 'not good enough' on any commercial system. Keep looking for examples because the 'utopian scenario' has yet to materialize.

    Meanwhile, I have a job to do, and performance targets to match (and beat). That is why I will continue using C/C++ while you are off daydreaming about an ideal world where everybody programs their guff in 'portable Java code' and it runs in a shiny VM everywhere with impeccable performance.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 04-21-2013 at 03:41 PM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squarepusher View Post
    Says the guy who talks about others being 'rude' - while I so far have never resorted to one 'insult' or called for somebody to die.

    If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Swearing like mad and saying people should die shows you can't handle an argument with wit and tact. It is a sign of weakness and inadequacy on your part.



    You actually operate under the assumption that the business world has a place for all of the shitty 'toy languages' your mind can conjure up.

    Trust me - if you were counting your Java/C# eggs before they actually hatched, I'd feel very insecure about your position in the jobs market right now. Have a lot of fun with that because performance-focused coding will start becoming more and more a priority as we target ever-slower platforms (especially ones where runtime performance is governed by battery usage - it pays to be high performing').



    You're probably not a person I'd even want to talk to in the first place, so it isn't so much a case of 'willing to give you another shot' more that I frankly don't know who the hell you are and why I should even care about you and your argument. Notice that it is you engaging me in a conversation - I didn't ask you anything at all nor did I even ask you to start commenting (nor did you actually make a single point - not to mention you didn't even know Minecraft Pocket Edition on Kindle Fire is C++, not Java, which craps all over your own argument anyway). I'd have to say at this point that I really have zero interest in your opinion, so yeah, I'll brief you about the 'dying part' as soon as we get there - that might take another good 40 years though so I hope you can be as patient in this regard as you are of the garbage-collecting VMs you seem to like.

    I remember asking a question and politely asking you to show me a modicum of respect - which you refused to do. Then you proceeded to misunderstand and argue against things I never said. For clarification, what I said was all these languages have their place, and I was willing to continue this discussion if you could be civil - if not, you could crawl off and die. Since you defaulted to being butthurt, I assume civility is beyond you. It was, after all, your choice.

    As for having a discussion, you're not "discussing" anything. You're proselytizing and evangelizing all while pithily dismissing and ignoring points counter to your own. You're not looking for truth, you're claiming to have it. And like most religious nut cases, you don't seem to know your ass from third base. Just because you don't understand the point doesn't mean there wasn't one.

    So no, as much as I hate to say this, we're not really on the same level. You've failed the litmus test for intelligence all the while insulting the intellect of everybody else and being condescending to anyone who disagrees with you. I know this is the Internet, but damn.

    You can have the last word if you want. But in kind, I don't much care about what you think, either (since it can be summed up with "C++ is the only programming language and anybody who says differently is an idiot" as near as anyone here can tell.) I can't imagine why people would find that abrasive.

    May you live in interesting times.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post

    And where did you get those i7 system requirments for Minecraft?
    Rectal mining as near as I can tell, BO$$. I've had it running in a playable manner on an AMD dual core with integrated graphics.

  8. #88

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    'And where did you get those i7 system requirments for Minecraft? Intel P4/NetBurst Architecture or its AMD Equivalent and 2 GB Ram. So a pentium 4 and a really low 2GB Ram. Not even close an i7. You really need help. '

    Absolute dogshit what you posted here. Oh and BTW - '2GB RAM' is not 'really low RAM' when you consider that your average console does not even have 1/4th of that. I have the sneaking suspicion I am talking to an end-user by now masquerading as a 'bad programmer'. Who knows - I might not be far off there.

    I have seen you lie in this thread over and over so I'm not even remotely surprised anymore.

    Now obviously it has been established you are a desperate shittalker who doesn't know what he is talking about - case in point your assertion that 'nobody exceeds the Java VM heapsize limit' - tell that to the Ouya guys programming their games with their wonderful Unity-powered ODK. So obviously you are full of shit there.

    You are furthermore full of shit because I have seen the same behavior in my own apps.

    But hey - I am just supposed to take your word - because some Fievel Forumtroll that wrote a shitty game demo that didn't run at acceptable speeds said something to the opposite effect. Uhuh. Show me a Github page or something that proves even half of the shit you say. Until then, just shut up - you are ignored and you don't matter.

    Oh BTW - I put you on ignore so apologies but I might not be around to read your (probably shit) reply. Not much point in reading stuff from a bad liar (but then again you're a Java brogrammer so anything goes) anyways.

    There's probably a good chance a lot of you Java brogrammers will join the unemployment lines in the ensuing depression years - and I have to say, good riddance to the lot of you when that happens. I have absolutely zero sympathy for the lot of you. Your mentality is shit, your attitude is shit, your skills are shit, your language is shit, the IDEs you code in are shit, the VMs and OSes you run your software in are shit, the company that 'owns' your language is shit, your games are shit and run crappily (Minecraft), and frankly you all need to get out of the business before you start 'corrupting' the 'real' software engineering business.

    Byebye now Java tards and keep failing and 'collecting' garbage while you count your cumulative millisecond stalls (which according to your braindead mind has 'absolutely no detrimental effects to performance'). Stupid morons.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 04-21-2013 at 08:48 PM.

  9. #89
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    Wow, another bland news story descends into a flame war for no real reason. Does anyone know a Linux-focussed news site that isn't full of dickheads? I'd like to go there.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    So basically you complain that Android is a multitasking capable OS. Of course there can be services running in the background. If you want to play you kill them to improve your framerate. Even on PC you do that. Why should Android be any different. The problem is that what you do with RetroArch is a very specific problem that isn't addressed by Google. But games in general can be written very well on that platform.

    The fact that your code is open source and mine isn't doesn't say anything about me. It doesn't mean that my code is inferior as you like to believe. In fact the best game engines are closed source. Reading your posts here and on RetroArch forum you seem to have a very socialist (not say communist) worldview. Just because you don't make any money from RetroArch doesn't mean I shouldn't from my work. Being an entrepreneur doesn't make me inferior as much as you commie would like to think it does. Oh and by the way you seem to think you are so smart, RetroArch isn't exactly a cure for cancer in programming difficulty and yes I did write my own game engine. The fact that you don't get along with Android says more about you than about Android since the rest of the game devs (and whole world actually) seem OK with it. It's not perfect but it's not horrendeous either.

    If you really hate Android so much why don't you stop developing for it?
    Oh, how surprising that you identify yourself as an 'entrepreneur' - certainly didn't see that coming from a mile away.....

    Anybody calling themselves an 'entrepreneur' 99.99% of the time in software engineering translates into a scumbag piece of shit that can't even hack it. Failure or unwillingness to produce any code of course means you can build yourself up to be this 'great coding god' all you want without having to produce jack shit all evidence for it - which all feeds into the douchyness of your kind.

    BTW - most of you 'indie dev' morons are plain talentless hack failures - I'd just like you to know that. You, Phil Fish, Mojang, Jonathan Blow - all of you are loudmouth dipshits who think they are something 'special' because you can make a Super Mario Bros 1 clone with a gimmick (rewind) or a Myst clone, or a 'game engine that looks worse than Quake 1'. Rovio got rich off 'using' an opensource framework (Box2D) and just having a bunch of women design cute fluffy birds all day. So the problem with your kind is - you act like you're 'entitled' to money, like you're 'entitled' to be 'entrepreneurial' and shit but you expect the 'tools' you use to 'grow rich' to still remain free. Well, you can't have both dipshit - you are either a cockroach who is all about 'himself' or you help out your fellow man and help out the world by sharing the stuff you are doing for the betterment of whatever 'knowledge economy' there is. Failure to do that means you are a parasite who is all too happy to 'stand on the shoulder of giants' but not contribute a damn motherfucking thing yourself. That is my reason for calling you what you are - a 'cockroach', failing that a 'parasite'. That is what you are. Just like the people on Wall Street who you think are such great people for you to 'imitate'.

    The fact that your code is open source and mine isn't doesn't say anything about me. It doesn't mean that my code is inferior as you like to believe. In fact the best game engines are closed source.
    Then why the fuck don't you get off this site then? Your scumbag kind doesn't even seem to belong here. Imagine if the people behind the Linux kernel and/or Mesa shared your attitude - you wouldn't have anything to run your (closed source) piece of shit game engine on in the first place

    But hey, I know plenty of FLOSS tards these days who talk just like you. You are a symptom of the cancer that is surrounding modern 'homegrown' development.

    Must feel good, having sold out right?

    Reading your posts here and on RetroArch forum you seem to have a very socialist (not say communist) worldview. Just because you don't make any money from RetroArch doesn't mean I shouldn't from my work.
    Hey cockroach, THIS IS HOW HOMEBREW/OPEN SOURCE WORKS - this is HOW WE ROLL since the '80s and '70s - you provide your SHIT FOR FREE and you provide your SOURCE. This is how this motherfucking community used to work before piece of shit maggots like you found out there was a way to 'profit' from shitty homegrown code on dipshit App Stores. Michael Abrash started talking elaborately about the tech behind Quake 1's source code the VERY SAME YEAR the game was published in the spirit of 'INFORMATION SHOULD BE OPEN' - something a disgusting cockroach llike you don't even believe in. And what the motherfuck do you have to offer in your dipshit 'game engine' that a guy like Abrash couldn't? Exactly jack shit all that is what, Junior.

    You, your fucking 'Valley attitude', your merry band of failure 'startup entrepreneurs' and the companies that 'enable you' (Google/Apple) can all go fuck off and die as far as I am concerned. Is that plain enough for you bubba?
    RetroArch isn't exactly a cure for cancer in programming difficulty and yes I did write my own game engine.
    Oh, but your shitty 'game engine 101' is, right? (the source which we can't even look into because you are a shit-faced wannabe 'entrepreneur' that thinks he is going to 'make it big' when he never will).

    The fact that you don't get along with Android says more about you than about Android since the rest of the game devs (and whole world actually) seem OK with it. It's not perfect but it's not horrendeous either.
    'Android' games are nothing more (99.9% of the time) than 'run-me-down' iOS ports. Nobody on Earth who is serious about programming is 'loving' this piece of garbage and even fewer use it as their 'primary' platform - that always remains iOS (I guess that must be because despite all things - Android is still 'really great', right?).

    The reason they don't speak out against it in public (about the obvious thousand issues that are wrong with this Android garbage) is because they want to maintain close and 'friendly' ties to Google and because most programmers are spineless, gutless nerds that waive all their rights and their right to an own opinion as long as it meansa a company employs them and they are a few months removed from the unemployment lines.

    Then you have the scumbag maggot kind (like you) that self-identifies as an 'entrepreneur' and defend Android simply because their 'lax policies' on their store makes you think this is a 'great ticket' to 'growing rich' - most of your larvae kind don't give a crap about the actual quality of your programs or the enjoyment factor - as long as you become the 'next Steve Jobs/Bill Gates' in terms of raking in ill-gotten gains.

    You and your kind are cancer and it's good to see you identified how I see your disgusting bottom-feeding kind - I know exactly what your cockroach kind is about. You can take your 'apps should be monetized' fetish and you can SHOVE IT right up your fat hillbilly ass.
    Last edited by Squarepusher; 04-22-2013 at 07:17 AM.

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