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Thread: OpenShot Switches From GTK+ To Qt

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jayrulez View Post
    +Hawaii .
    As a example on a more integrated system, some of Navicos, Lowrance marine electronic products, echo sounder, Marine gps etc is supposed to use Qt. At least according to Digias marketing material.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    I don't really see how you can say that Cinnamon doesn't use GTK as it's based on Gnome, it's the default toolkit for the desktop, all the theming etc. is done via GTK, the file manager uses GTK...
    Cinnamon itself only consists of a window manager (Muffin) and the shell. Both built around libmutter and using Clutter. GTK is not used in Cinnamon itself. One may use GTK applications under Cinnamon but that does make Cinnamon as much GTK based as KDE Plasma Desktop is GTK-based when running a GTK application.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Skype, VLC etc. are not desktop environments. If we go on to consider all types of applications, then there are still tons of GTK apps, many of which still don't have any Qt-based equivalents, nor is anyone really interested in porting them to Qt. GIMP, Inkscape, Transmission, GParted, Firefox, just to name a few.
    Firefox is not, not, not, NOT, NOT, NOT a GTK app. It uses XUL, with a GTK-based backend on Linux only. It's like running Konqueror with a Gtk theme engine and claiming that Konqueror is a GTK app.

    And a mixture of Qt and GTK apps is here to stay. Clementine, Amarok, Digikam, KDEnlive, K3b and many other apps remain popular just like GIMP, Inkscape etc. do.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Gtk is not used only by GNOME. It's also used by Xfce, LXDE, Cinnamon, Mate, whatever that thing is the SolusOS guys are building... Qt? Let's see, there's KDE, Razor-Qt... that's about it.

    And then there's all the applications that depend on Gtk (either 2 or 3). A lot of them are applications that don't have any real equivalent in Qt and no one is really interested in porting them to it. There's no good reason to kill Gtk. Diversity is a good thing here.
    When you say KDE you are really talking about a lot of apps, and a lot of them are much better IMO than the gtk counterparts. There's Google Earth, Autodesk Maya, QTiplot, Mathematica, Guitar Pro, Sony Reader, etc... there is a lot of professional and commercial Qt apps out there (some of those are in the Apple App Store too) that don't mention the toolkit used, since that's kind of irrelevant, and that make use of the commercial license. Either way that's not the point, Qt is just superior.

    Gnome has failed, because due discontent three forks had been created, Mate, Cinnamon and Unity shell, giving you 5 gnomes since you have to add gnome shell and gnome 2 too. Awful! A lot of users migrated to other desktops. The gnome situation is not a very happy one.

    IMO, the only usable and decent DE for linux are KDE, Unity and XFCE. But XFCE is built on a dead toolkit, gtk2 and is a niche project . Unity is being rewritten in QT/QML. Cinnamon is not going to have a bright future as long it keeps relying on gnome, a gnome project that doesn't care at all about cinnamon .

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by pingufunkybeat View Post
    Firefox is not, not, not, NOT, NOT, NOT a GTK app. There were Qt frontends for it written many times, only the patches were not maintained.

    And a mixture of Qt and GTK apps is here to stay. Clementine, Amarok, Digikam, KDEnlive, K3b and many other apps remain popular just like GIMP, Inkscape etc. do.
    Methinks you protest too much or whatever. Go on to the mozilla page, download and install firefox, run it, it uses GTK. That counts as a GTK application in my book, no matter what other unmaintained frontends there may or may not have existed. IIRC there was once a fork of GIMP that used Qt/KDE instead of GTK, which is no longer maintained, but that doesn't make GIMP any less a GTK application.

    Anyway, like I said diversity is good. I use software that I like and software that works, I don't care at all what toolkit they use, as the extra libraries take what, less than a percent of my hard drive space... so I don't really get the toolkit purists who want their entire system to only run GTK or Qt apps.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
    Cinnamon itself only consists of a window manager (Muffin) and the shell. Both built around libmutter and using Clutter. GTK is not used in Cinnamon itself. One may use GTK applications under Cinnamon but that does make Cinnamon as much GTK based as KDE Plasma Desktop is GTK-based when running a GTK application.
    Ok then. Go install Linux Mint (or any other Cinnamon-using distro) and completely remove all the GTK libraries. Let me know how it goes.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Methinks you protest too much or whatever. Go on to the mozilla page, download and install firefox, run it, it uses GTK. That counts as a GTK application in my book, no matter what other unmaintained frontends there may or may not have existed. IIRC there was once a fork of GIMP that used Qt/KDE instead of GTK, which is no longer maintained, but that doesn't make GIMP any less a GTK application.
    You do understand that there is a very big difference between the GIMP which is completely built around the GIMP Toolkit and Firefox, which uses a custom toolkit and just uses GTK to paint the widget, right?

    Same is true for OpenOffice/LibreOffice. Custom, in-house toolkit, only the painting part was replaced with calls to GTK because it was ugly anyway.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Ok then. Go install Linux Mint (or any other Cinnamon-using distro) and completely remove all the GTK libraries. Let me know how it goes.
    That will probably fail due to linking in Mint packages.

    It should be possible if you build Cinnamon from source and use it to launch Qt apps. Cinnamon itself is not based on GTK, AFAIK.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    When you say KDE you are really talking about a lot of apps, and a lot of them are much better IMO than the gtk counterparts. There's Google Earth, Autodesk Maya, QTiplot, Mathematica, Guitar Pro, Sony Reader, etc... there is a lot of professional and commercial Qt apps out there (some of those are in the Apple App Store too) that don't mention the toolkit used, since that's kind of irrelevant, and that make use of the commercial license. Either way that's not the point, Qt is just superior.

    Gnome has failed, because due discontent three forks had been created, Mate, Cinnamon and Unity shell, giving you 5 gnomes since you have to add gnome shell and gnome 2 too. Awful! A lot of users migrated to other desktops. The gnome situation is not a very happy one.

    IMO, the only usable and decent DE for linux are KDE, Unity and XFCE. But XFCE is built on a dead toolkit, gtk2 and is a niche project . Unity is being rewritten in QT/QML. Cinnamon is not going to have a bright future as long it keeps relying on gnome, a gnome project that doesn't care at all about cinnamon .
    I couldn't really give a rat's ass about apple app store or any other DRM-riddled shithole like it. I couldn't also give a crap about closed-source proprietary products on windows or mac that use Qt. The point is, there's plenty of GTK apps that don't have any viable alternative in Qt (and no, proprietary, closed windows crap doesn't count as viable). Inkscape for one - where are the Qt-based free, open source vector graphics editors? GIMP is another, actually - before you say Krita, I use it a lot and I love it, but it has a totally different function than GIMP and isn't meant for the same tasks. And so on.

    Fanboyism isn't often a useful attitude to have. It produces myopic vision. If you think Qt/KDE is the best thing since sliced bread, that's fine, you can keep on using them and purging your system from all GTK apps. But it gets kind of silly when you start waging some kind of holy crusade against other TOOLKITS because you think your favorite one is "superior" for some reason...

    Also funny that you should say that Cinnamon doesn't have a bright future. What qualifies you to make that assessment? Cinnamon just keeps growing and getting better each release, and gaining more popularity and users.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
    Before anybody believes this lame troll:
    Qt is licensed under LGPL 2.1 and GPL 3 and when somebody tries to kill it, the entire Qt project becomes BSD-licensed.
    Before you call me lame troll, at least read licensing!
    Qt is licensed LGPL(which nullifies GPL restrictions, lesser path used), BUT contributions require CLA, which in turn nullifies LGPL on any condition. Qt does not become BSD-licensed, it will become EULA licensed with all other licenses stripped.
    This is possible scenario! Currently it allows Dignia to use all contributions and ignoring any GPL produce proprietary code, which we hope is used for self-funding of Qt. However, this vector is easily exploitable for immediate license change.
    I didn't tell Qt is bad, I told only its license contains expoit!

    Quote Originally Posted by bwat47 View Post
    Ms isn't going to come "kill" QT, please don't spread FUD.
    Learn to distinguish between FUD and opinion. MS builds on top of JS/HTML5, so its possible!
    Last edited by brosis; 04-26-2013 at 07:57 PM.

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