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Thread: OpenShot Switches From GTK+ To Qt

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Frett View Post
    I don't get how some of you feel OpenShot is "Stable" when the number one complaint is it's lack of Stability. Generally you can't edit more than a few minutes of Video without a complete crash. Anyway, I only do some basic cutting and encoding and have found that Avidemux suits my needs for reliability since VirtualDub isn't available on Linux.

    Exactly Pallidus, why Mac and Win need another Editor out of the hundreds already available is beyond me. What he should of done was just ask the Linux community to donate, I'm sure we would've been happy to do so. Now there is a huge burden on him to support three platforms, and I'm sure Linux will not be his top priority anymore.
    For VirtualDub, maybe there should be a way to import/export files made with VirtualDub into OpenShot to allow you to work with them.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by grok View Post
    but my OS wants to install 67 packages, taking 163MB additional disk space after installation if I want to install this dolphin file manager.
    Dolphin demands that much because it is pulling in both the Qt libraries and the KDE base libraries as its dependencies. Dolphin is the file manager program for KDE, and if your system is completely devoid of any Qt and KDE libraries the initial dependency pull is definitely going to be extremely large.

    The same logic will work the other way round: try to install nautilus into a KDE-centric like OpenSUSE or Mageia and you will realize that Nautilus also ends up dragging with it a huge ton of GTK and Gnome-based dependencies.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    Well, i recommend you to use the Qt version since the gtk version is or is about to be deprecated as a legacy, vintage, obsolete and nostalgic version. Ask yourself why you need two version or why the developer did it in the first place.
    I see no reason to use it, at least for now (bugs, missing features). Maybe in a year when it's done. Then, running PCManFM Qt in Razor-Qt would probably be very interesting. Razor Qt meets LXDE .
    See, I want options. The GTK world has this nice diversity, use the bloated pig (that used to be Gnome 2, then PCs caught up) or something lighter like Xfce, then LXDE. Want some app, there's that one with "half of Gnome" as dependency and this other one which only needs gtk and a handful very common libs.

    Want some terminal emulator? There's gnome-terminal which needs some useless crap, but you can use xfce4-terminal or lxterminal instead (and still have GUI configuration and tabs). Same for a great many deal of other GTK apps. (leafpad replaces gedit, gpicview replaces eye of gnome.. multiple options even)

    With Qt apps I've always felt they all depend on "half of KDE". It's the case for those I can think of which have a great reputation (dolphin, okular, digikam). Maybe I'll get there, eventually, if I can run some Qt desktop which is not KDE (and using some desktop-agnostic GTK applications there will certainly be an option)

    BTW on lightweight systems I install xpdf, lol. Gets the job done even if it looks like software from 1987.
    Last edited by grok; 04-28-2013 at 12:42 PM.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by RealNC View Post
    It's rather mid-term, not short-term. It's not like KDE5 is coming out in 3 months. It's gonna be years, probably.

    Also, a disaster doesn't need to be the end of the world in order to qualify as a disaster. "A nuclear bomb went off in the center of New York. Don't worry, it's not the end of the world."
    Well, I don't know the roadmap for KDE SC 5. But I wouldn't be surprised if they already have an early alpha in 3 months. And no, a slightly different theme is not a disaster, either. Guess what, Skype on x86_64 multilib also has no way of changing the theme into the native one, but it's not like it makes it that ugly or unusable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    Sadly a lot of developers made the mistake of using gtk as a toolkit for their apps, the damage is done. But i wish developers to stop using gnome and gtk3 already, there's no good reason for using those libraries.
    Except, as already mentioned, there is a far amount of cases where GTK is still better, mostly in terms of language bindings.

    Quote Originally Posted by grok View Post
    With Qt apps I've always felt they all depend on "half of KDE". It's the case for those I can think of which have a great reputation (dolphin, okular, digikam). Maybe I'll get there, eventually, if I can run some Qt desktop which is not KDE (and using some desktop-agnostic GTK applications there will certainly be an option)
    Well, before Razor-qt, there was little motivation to create such applications, since most people who used Qt already used KDE. But now there is, so give it time.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by grok View Post
    but my OS wants to install 67 packages, taking 163MB additional disk space after installation if I want to install this dolphin file manager.
    And that would have been a lot 20 years ago but today that's nothing…

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
    This entire story is about a GTK application that switches to Qt, yet YOU are the one in denial who's preaching all the time how great GTK is.
    If your religious feelings were hurt by OpenShot's decision, bad for you, but don't come here and tell everyone how amazingly great GTK is and then complain that others disprove you.
    I'm doing no such thing as. When it comes to preaching, it's you who is here religiously bashing Gtk and praising Qt. Maybe it's a sort of inferiority complex? After all, KDE has been around for ages and still hasn't managed to gain more than niche popularity, despite all it's purported "superiority"...

    Anyway, all I've been saying is that there's a place for both toolkits, but you'd want to see everyone migrate to Qt because of your religious and irrational fanboyism. That's not smart nor would it be in the best interest of the Linux ecosystem. Luckily, you don't get to decide which toolkits people use. People are free to use GTK, Qt, EFL, SDL or even wxWidgets to create their programs, and will continue to do so despite your butthurt feelings.

    “A few big contributing factors to choosing Qt was the performance of embedding HTML and JavaScript (for our timeline and curve editing widgets), native-looking widget rendering (on Mac, Windows, and Linux), improved tools for designing interfaces, and the easy ability to use OpenGL to display our video preview widget.” (Quote from the original announcement)
    Yeah that's just great for OpenShot, if they feel that Qt suits their needs better, good for them. OpenShot is only one application however. One shoe doesn't fit all sizes, and one solution doesn't suit everyone. There's likely no chance in hell of applications like GIMP, Firefox, Inkscape etc. all migrating to Qt.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Yeah that's just great for OpenShot, if they feel that Qt suits their needs better, good for them. OpenShot is only one application however. One shoe doesn't fit all sizes, and one solution doesn't suit everyone. There's likely no chance in hell of applications like GIMP, Firefox, Inkscape etc. all migrating to Qt.
    Gimp, you're right. GTK (used to?) stands for "Gimp Tool-Kit", so of course GIMP wont change. Inkscape, up to them, I dont know how close they are to the gnome guys.

    Firefox on the other hand...they could probably get a little extra bump by moving to Qt, in the long term. I know for me, latest firefox still softlocks while rendering sometimes, if the CPU is busy. (Windows 7, so its not a "acceleration is disabled on xyz driver") and with Qt5 basically all GUI rendering is done on the GPU so they could actually fix bugs and improve usability by moving to Qt longterm.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    I'm doing no such thing as. When it comes to preaching, it's you who is here religiously bashing Gtk and praising Qt. Maybe it's a sort of inferiority complex?
    No, technological superiority is a plain and simple fact – a fact that has been proven here several times already (again: see OpenShot's and PCMan's Qt praise).

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    After all, KDE has been around for ages and still hasn't managed to gain more than niche popularity, despite all it's purported "superiority"...
    The topic at hand here is Qt, not KDE.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Yeah that's just great for OpenShot, if they feel that Qt suits their needs better, good for them. OpenShot is only one application however.
    Again you are in denial. Several other cases of switches to Qt were already listed – in many cases away from GTK, in other cases away from another framework. To repeat only a few, just in case some other Phoronix user did not read everything: BlackBerry switched from their old framework to Qt with BB10, Canonical switched to Qt, VLC switched to Qt.
    These switches did not happen because Qt is inferior or even equal to the previous frameworks. If that was the case, a switch to Qt was crazy.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awesomeness View Post
    No, technological superiority is a plain and simple fact – a fact that has been proven here several times already (again: see OpenShot's and PCMan's Qt praise).
    You have very strange definitions of "proven fact". OpenShot's and PCMan's praise counts as exactly that - OpenShot's and PCMan's respective opinions. And they might be right, when it comes to OpenShot and PCMan specifically. That still is a long way from being a "proven fact" that Qt is better for every application in every situation.

    Again you are in denial. Several other cases of switches to Qt were already listed – in many cases away from GTK, in other cases away from another framework. To repeat only a few, just in case some other Phoronix user did not read everything: BlackBerry switched from their old framework to Qt with BB10, Canonical switched to Qt, VLC switched to Qt.
    These switches did not happen because Qt is inferior or even equal to the previous frameworks. If that was the case, a switch to Qt was crazy.
    And GCC switched from C to C++. Does that mean that C++ is better than C for every program and situation? Should the Linux kernel be migrated to C++, for example?

    People are free to switch to whatever toolkit or programming language they want, for any reason, perceived or real. That still doesn't count as evidence that one toolkit would be objectively better than the other for all situations and use cases.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    and with Qt5 basically all GUI rendering is done on the GPU
    I hope that's purely optional? I wouldn't want Firefox to fry my GPU, on top of making my browsing slow.
    Anyway I think Firefox's "thinking moments" when you click a tab or menu is a little deeper issue than that. You would need to it tear down completely and rebuild it to be multithreaded - though the way it is has its advantages. I have two choices, use Firefox and have CPU waste (for hours on) and slowdowns, but not swap ; or use Chromium which is always responsive and seems to waste less CPU, but uses like triple the memory and drives me into swap hell (that's terribly not responsive in the end).

    It uses XUL, anyway.

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