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Thread: Lightworks Linux Beta Is Finally Public

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    How are they misleading the foss world? -> They announced they had plans of opening source code prematurely.
    Really? Of course you conveniently fail to add that they only support half the relevant import formats in kdenlive without the pro version. Exactly when do you think they will open source the pro version?
    Or maybe you just don't know what fsck your talking about. So i have no clue and am i liar - even though package management on my chosen distro allows just that??? (Archlinux).
    OK, so liar it is. Next time say you are using pacman, instead of a one-liner git mumbo-jumbo. Communication is a skill, try to acquire it.

  2. #42
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    Default Yes, I have tested OpenGL playback many times, using Kdenlive from Sunab PPA

    [QUOTE=Del_;328644]Luke, have you tested OpenGL play back in Kdenlive? (You need to enable it in settings) If you have, please share what problems you see.

    OpenGL playback has ALWAYS given choppy or laggy playback of my files, I've tested it with every card and driver I've used. They are the streams from AVCHD clips put into .flv (!) containers in avconv so I can avoid the seek issues AVCHD is known for. The best performance I ever saw in handling playback was with Nouveau on a GTS450 using XV. Running the blob the performance sucked on both XV and on Opengl, with openGL being best and lagging only on transitions-but WORSE than any open driver/card on XV.

    Now using a Radeon 6750 on the open source mesa/radeon driver with all the performance optimizations (disable sync to vblank, etc). CPU is AMD "bulldozer" FX 8120 at 4.4GHZ (the 8150 was destroyed by a VRAM failure).

    Power management on the video card is static by powerplayswitcher.py . All the way up or halfway up, no difference in Kdenlive, almost as good all the way down. Sometimes transitions, especially dissolves, are smooth, but other times, and most often with clock wipes, they lag enough to force choppy sound. Using ALSA on the sound card directly, Pulseaudio is removed because it creates issues with playback of AVCHD files or the files made from them in every video player.

    Yet, shotcut can open that exact same .kdenlive file I save, play it back using MLT and with OpenGL enabled, butter smooth end to end even on a Phenom II X4 at 3.8GHX with a Radeon 5570 on a copy of the same OS. I would so love to see those projects merge or at least have a good old
    fashioned one-night stand to mix that good DNA between the two. I now get so few kdenlive crashes, and such good crash recovery I would then see
    little to ask for for what I do with video from any other editor. I've been with Kdenlive since the incredibly buggy KDE 3.5 versions back in 2007-2008, not ONCE found anything better, only things good for special tasks. Used to use Cinelerra to interpolate 20FPS video to 30, but it did a poor job, just dissolving between frames. Shotcut does a HELL of a good job of that, though "jelly roll" on 720P action shooting was also enough to junk that camera.

    In answer to another question I have not run Lightworks as I cannot trust that sort of binary on my live system full of "classified" raw clips, and to prepare a system from scratch on a junk disk, then bring in everything needed to run Lightworks just for testing would be a lot of work and bandwidth(no landline at home!). Anytime you are considering airgapping from the network with two machines in one case-or a VM-you are in no position to use an editor that connects to the Internet itself. Would have to shoot special "harmless" clips just to try it-and preconvert to a format the free version could read or test only over 7 days.

    I'm not saying Lightworks is BAD, not at all. I'd sure as hell rather see pro video editors run Lightworks over Linux and gamers run Steam over Linux than see them using Windows anyday.

    The only reason for me to test it as of now would be curiosity, though I would definately advise developers of all FOSS editors to at least check out Youtube videos of the paid ones for comparison. If an offline version you can download without an account ever comes out, I will download it, turn off networking, install it, test it with the network disconnected, and purge before reconnecting,

    About codec licenses: yes, I use the full versions of avconv/ffmpeg, no, I don't pay a penny for patent licenses when I don't recognize the authority of any government to patent software or DNA. I shoot front-line video of militant street protests, you can guess my position on "voluntary compliance" with an unjust law I oppose and which even MPEG-LA has bailed on enforcing on noncommerical users. I never sell ads or solicit donations on my videos, I would use cheaper gear first. A public library can pay for Fluendo if they fear lawsuits, I need ffmpeg/avconv. Mint (and I think Fluendo themselves too) go so far as to state that only institutional users need ever worry about codecs.

  3. #43
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    Default I've tested OpenGL in Kdenlive many times

    [QUOTE=Del_;328644]Luke, have you tested OpenGL play back in Kdenlive? (You need to enable it in settings) If you have, please share what problems you see.

    OpenGL playback has ALWAYS given choppy or laggy playback of my files, I've tested it with every card and driver I've used. They are the streams from AVCHD clips put into .flv (!) containers in avconv so I can avoid the seek issues AVCHD is known for. The best performance I ever saw in handling playback was with Nouveau on a GTS450 using XV. Running the blob the performance sucked on both XV and on Opengl, with openGL being best and lagging only on transitions-but WORSE than any open driver/card on XV.

    Now using a Radeon 6750 on the open source mesa/radeon driver with all the performance optimizations (disable sync to vblank, etc). CPU is AMD "bulldozer" FX 8120 at 4.4GHZ (the 8150 was destroyed by a VRAM failure).

    Power management on the video card is static by powerplayswitcher.py . All the way up or halfway up, no difference in Kdenlive, almost as good all the way down. Sometimes transitions, especially dissolves, are smooth, but other times, and most often with clock wipes, they lag enough to force choppy sound. Using ALSA on the sound card directly, Pulseaudio is removed because it creates issues with playback of AVCHD files or the files made from them in every video player.

    Yet, shotcut can open that exact same .kdenlive file I save, play it back using MLT and with OpenGL enabled, butter smooth end to end even on a Phenom II X4 at 3.8GHX with a Radeon 5570 on a copy of the same OS. I would so love to see those projects merge or at least have a good old
    fashioned one-night stand to mix that good DNA between the two. I now get so few kdenlive crashes, and such good crash recovery I would then see
    little to ask for for what I do with video from any other editor. I've been with Kdenlive since the incredibly buggy KDE 3.5 versions back in 2007-2008, not ONCE found anything better, only things good for special tasks. Used to use Cinelerra to interpolate 20FPS video to 30, but it did a poor job, just dissolving between frames. Shotcut does a HELL of a good job of that, though "jelly roll" on 720P action shooting was also enough to junk that camera.

    In answer to another question I have not run Lightworks as I cannot trust that sort of binary on my live system full of "classified" raw clips, and to prepare a system from scratch on a junk disk, then bring in everything needed to run Lightworks just for testing would be a lot of work and bandwidth(no landline at home!). Anytime you are considering airgapping from the network with two machines in one case-or a VM-you are in no position to use an editor that connects to the Internet itself. Would have to shoot special "harmless" clips just to try it-and preconvert to a format the free version could read or test only over 7 days.

    I'm not saying Lightworks is BAD, not at all. I'd sure as hell rather see pro video editors run Lightworks over Linux and gamers run Steam over Linux than see them using Windows anyday.

    The only reason for me to test it as of now would be curiosity, though I would definately advise developers of all FOSS editors to at least check out Youtube videos of the paid ones for comparison. If an offline version you can download without an account ever comes out, I will download it, turn off networking, install it, test it with the network disconnected, and purge before reconnecting,

    About codec licenses: yes, I use the full versions of avconv/ffmpeg, no, I don't pay a penny for patent licenses when I don't recognize the authority of any government to patent software or DNA. I shoot front-line video of militant street protests, you can guess my position on "voluntary compliance" with an unjust law I oppose and which even MPEG-LA has bailed on enforcing on noncommerical users. I never sell ads or solicit donations on my videos, I would use cheaper gear first. A public library can pay for Fluendo if they fear lawsuits, I need ffmpeg/avconv. Mint (and I think Fluendo themselves too) go so far as to state that only institutional users need ever worry about codecs.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del_ View Post
    Really? Of course you conveniently fail to add that they only support half the relevant import formats in kdenlive without the pro version. Exactly when do you think they will open source the pro version?
    You nor I know what the future holds in terms of their plans, beyond available information. so why is it that you've already narrowed it down to some binary choice/conclusion??? ~ is this really how you evaluate everything in your life? I would probably think that isn't the case, for most people (and likely not you, either). I don't think it comes down to the two possibilities that you are prescribing here, it's possible that as things progress more codecs may be enabled / applicable to OSS version... (you know, sort of like what happened during the Alpha program where lots of codecs <now available> weren't available at all, initially.)...

    You've jumped to your own conclusions. oh sh*t, i forgot you can see into the future. fail. :\

    Quote Originally Posted by Del_ View Post
    OK, so liar it is. Next time say you are using pacman, instead of a one-liner git mumbo-jumbo. Communication is a skill, try to acquire it.
    No, not using pacman - since that is for binaries from the arch repos. I used yaourt/makepkg depending on situation.

    I can communicate just fine. You just didn't ask me to clarify a god damn thing before you accused me of being a liar or not having a clue, then instead proceeded to make false accusations (EDIT: ironically, another simple-minded binary choice. i guess you just have a poor imagination...lolz).... -> So dummy, if you want to talk about communication skills, then go get some help for yourself. Clearly, you could use some.

    ...and that wasn't mumbo-jumbo - i stated the difficulty of installing kdenlive from git on my machine, it's your own fault for putting your foot in your mouth. i think it's funny, personally.

  5. #45
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    Yaourt is a wrapper for pacman, didn't you know? Moreover, why the nonsense about compiling, the latest kdenlive is probably already available in stable binary package for Arch.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Del_ View Post
    Yaourt is a wrapper for pacman, didn't you know? Moreover, why the nonsense about compiling, the latest kdenlive is probably already available in stable binary package for Arch.
    lol. Clearly i know more than you do about it. Since being a wrapper to pacman is only one of yaourt's features. didn't *you* know? ...

    The Arch Build System, ABS for short, is a ports-like system for building and packaging software from source code. While pacman is the specialized Arch tool for binary package management (including packages built with the ABS), ABS is a collection of tools for compiling source into installable .pkg.tar.xz packages.
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Build_System

    just thought i'd throw that in there, since i don't have a clue.

    ...and there was discussion of latest versions of kdenlive, so why wouldn't i just pull from git, it makes for more sense - who knows, with all of this rapid development, maybe there was a bunch of fixes and improvements, right?

    ...and really none of this changes the heavy cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy that you have going on here. :\
    Last edited by ninez; 05-02-2013 at 12:17 AM.

  7. #47
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    lol, very funny, lol

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pallidus View Post
    fucking idiots


    so steam and gay games that's ok, they're proprietary and all but who cares right?

    a video editor (a much more complex program) it's not ok if it's closed source

    fuck yourselves


    their windows version is a bit better and there are other video editors in windows that are better
    The one who should "fuck himself" here is you.
    Nobody said that proprietary is not ok. Well, proprietary is indeed not OK, but its acceptable if one finds it acceptable.

    Uid313 does NOT find it acceptable:
    Quote Originally Posted by uid313 View Post
    Thanks, but no thanks.
    Free software means you should be able to use things without have to agree to anything.
    Freedom 0: The freedom to run the program for any purpose.


    Do not want licensing service, do not want an account, do not want to sign in, do not want forced DRM Internet connection, and do not want a seven-day trial pro license.

    Fuck this shit.
    Is it wrong? No, it isn't. He is correct.
    But there are people who don't care about everything he stated, for them this software is acceptable.

    However, Kivada and ninez shifted the thread into attack against opensource projects and into personal attacks:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kivada View Post
    OSS video editing tried and failed several times, to the point that almost all ofthe projects that where looking to make anything beyond the most basic functions was abandoned. Some of us needed a reason to finally leave OS X or Windows for video editing and this is it.
    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    +1

    ...and even without that reason. Linux users *desperately* needs a good video editor. Myself, i am done waiting and Lightworks is the only choice. If i had to wait for kdenlive, openshot, etc to catchup / offer same features / same quality - I bet i would be waiting YEARS for anything good to arrive from any of the OSS video editors....

    You're a _very_ simple-minded person, eh? ...I kinda have to wonder if it is not actually the opposite - that is, that 'Desktop Linux' needs a larger user-base (ie: more Mac/Win users migrating over) and to possibly lose some of it's ubuntu fanboy / fosstarded evangelists. (ie: you).
    with ninez shifting to direct attacks against Kdenlive using Lightworks. Lightworks is corporation controlled proprietatory piece, that gathers money with each copy.
    No wonder it will have much more features due to Kdenlive still not having critical popularity percentage.

    Also, LIghtworks clearly lied about any "opensource". Its opencore (aka shareware) project, that will never be ABLE to release full source code. It might cough out parts just to make judges happy in case FSF sues them, but in order to trully be able to work like freedom open project, it has to be designed this way from ground up! I already mentioned AMD fglrx case as proof. They can't open it up due to huge amount of crosslicensing that never was seperated in code, and it requires extra effort to compare the code with that to be opened to make sure no part is illegal to opensource. In principle, they designed second driver from ground up.

    True opensource/freedom projects, although offering much more benefits, are much harder to start, much harder to find financial rail, they are way more susceptible to legal and patent-over-standards attacks, and this is why they deserve more care to survive. Unless they are backed up by some huge corporation.

    So you either prefer opensource and support it, yet ditching out by proprietary project, till opensource project grows big enough on features,
    or you give a damn about whole openess, call people with different views "fosstards" and express love about proprietary approach.

    Mind you, FLOSS was born exceptionally due to proprietary starting to closing everything down and bounding everything to own rule including any type of different development.
    Even on GPL platform, you can use proprietary software easily. Granted proprietary does not copy-paste any open code - and they are free to reinvent bicycles, which they are used too anyway - there are no problems.

    So every time one says "fosstard", the person really shares how fucked up he is.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    However, Kivada and ninez shifted the thread into attack against opensource projects and into personal attacks:
    OSS video-editors have been a failure compared to video-editors on other platforms - pointing out that is NOT a personal attack. You may perceive it that way - but Kivada's comment wasn't out of step with reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    with ninez shifting to direct attacks against Kdenlive using Lightworks. Lightworks is corporation controlled proprietatory piece, that gathers money with each copy.
    No wonder it will have much more features due to Kdenlive still not having critical popularity percentage.
    Nice excuse. Who would have thought (?) a company making money and using their resources and knowledge to make a good product and improve on it over decades. Made by people who actually have been working in the broadcast/film industry for years and have worked hard to implement all of the features need by professionals.... and who would have thought, that people like to get paid for their hardwork - since life tends to cost money and even more surprisingly - sometimes these people have bills to pay, mouth's to feed and their company can't sustain, nor grow without that income....

    It's not EditShare's fault that Kdenlive's developers haven't figured out a creative way to fund their project, nor how to attract more developers and users... You're argument is not only laughable - but completely invalid.

    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    Also, LIghtworks clearly lied about any "opensource". Its opencore (aka shareware) project, that will never be ABLE to release full source code. It might cough out parts just to make judges happy in case FSF sues them, but in order to trully be able to work like freedom open project, it has to be designed this way from ground up! I already mentioned AMD fglrx case as proof. They can't open it up due to huge amount of crosslicensing that never was seperated in code, and it requires extra effort to compare the code with that to be opened to make sure no part is illegal to opensource. In principle, they designed second driver from ground up.
    You need to back up these claims with proof - demonstrate (factually, no shadow of doubt) that EditShare lied and has the intentions that you have laid out here - Failing to do so, means you can really just STFU - since your comments are essentially slander/libel. You also claimed it was 'designed this way from the ground up' - NO dude. they had an existing proprietary app, that they decided to try to open up. So it was NOT designed that way - you're not using your brain (at all) to come to the kind of conclusion that u have. And your AMD point, didn't prove anything... AMD != EditShare - you are just guessing, at the very best.

    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    True opensource/freedom projects, although offering much more benefits, are much harder to start, much harder to find financial rail, they are way more susceptible to legal and patent-over-standards attacks, and this is why they deserve more care to survive. Unless they are backed up by some huge corporation.
    Or they have project leaders who have figured out ways to attract more developers, users and find ways to fund their project - isn't the Openshot guy sitting on just under 50k (crowd funded)? ... And FOSS apps don't by virtue of being FOSS offer more benefits, necessarily. - they may in some cases, in fact, offer a few benefits (like source code), while not even meeting the basic functionality, expected in a given type of app... so no, by default they don't offer more benefits. no dice.

    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    So you either prefer opensource and support it, yet ditching out by proprietary project, till opensource project grows big enough on features,
    or you give a damn about whole openess, call people with different views "fosstards" and express love about proprietary approach.
    ...or you use a mix of both, don't take a particular ideological stance, nor break down every possibility of a given situation to some binary choice (as you have done right here!)

    Quote Originally Posted by brosis View Post
    Mind you, FLOSS was born exceptionally due to proprietary starting to closing everything down and bounding everything to own rule including any type of different development.
    Even on GPL platform, you can use proprietary software easily. Granted proprietary does not copy-paste any open code - and they are free to reinvent bicycles, which they are used too anyway - there are no problems.

    So every time one says "fosstard", the person really shares how fucked up he is.
    1. Gpl isn't a platform - it's a license. :\ 2. when little babies like yourself; A.) cry over people using proprietary software, B.) quote linus C.) make excuse after excuse to defend their (inferior) foss alternative, not based on features / technical merit / etc but INSTEAD D.) base this on ideological reasons and E). are extremely hypocritical in that -> they won't accept ANY criticism against their beloved foss alternative/software/project *and yet* have no problem - publicly slamming any company, piece of software, or person - who doesn't subscribe to the same (fosstarded) ideology these individuals do.

    quite frankly, your opinions are retarded and you're a total hypocritical little whiner. You can take your holier than thou, attitude and shove it where the sun don't shine... - you are a fosstard.

  10. #50
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    Luke, sad to hear about your performance issues with playback. I will have to test a bit at my end. One simple thing you could do with that format is to use proxy clips. I haven't tried the functionality, but I would be very surprised if it is still buggy. That should give you a smooth experience regardless.

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    OSS video-editors have been a failure compared to video-editors on other platforms
    It is quite clear from this thread that you made this claim on false basis. Morever, the statement is useseless without elaboration, which you are spectacularly uncapable of providing. I mentioned kdenlive in particular since it covers all my needs for video editing, and I know several people uses it professionally with success. Moreover, you will find threads where professionals discuss issues with kdenlive going four years back, guess what, most of what was noted as missing or not good enough has been rectified. You are of course free to believe what you want, but brosis was 100% correct in his analysis of the thread. I welcome proprietary apps on linux, but I seriously dislike when great open source projects are being unfairly bashed. For your information has kdenlive been funded very successfully when they asked for it (they got more money then they asked for in no time). The project has never been more alive.

    Personally I am of the opinion that open source gaming has to a large extent failed to provide viable alternatives, and that proprietary offerings there is important for linux. On video editing I believe you are seriously out of touch with reality if you reach that conclusion. Home users are very well catered for with open alternatives that are arguably better than imovie and wmm. For Lightworks even basic import functionality (where kdenlive is full featured, just drag in clips from variuos formats and sources and start editing) is totally crippled unless you go for the pro version. That said, I welcome proprietary offerings, especially if they refrain from claiming to be open source when it is evident for anybody who cares that they are not.

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