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Thread: Ubuntu Set To Terminate Its Brainstorm Project

  1. #31
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    Let me just add one more thing: What bothers me about Canonical's decisions more than what I wrote above is the Amazon search and it's opt-out nature. I think I'd be more at ease with Canonical's more recent decisions if the Amazon stuff had never happened. The Amazon stuff made me more suspicious of them, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same.

  2. #32
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    What's bothering me (to add to the list) is that new users who come to Ubuntu see this different, inferior, yet controlled software stack. It's highly likely that they will assume that the rest of the Linux distributions are like that as well, while it's far from being the case. And if their Mir-only apps don't work with Wayland, good luck trying to explain why.

  3. #33

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    I love Ubuntu for bringing the Linux world a desktop you could actually rally around and get outside developers to actually give a shit about.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    Irrelevant to what I said. They still use different technology (especially DEs). Also, you could just as well say that they are all based on Debian. Debian sure sounds more like the average distribution than Ubuntu itself.
    Nah, Ubuntu was Debian done right. I had tried Debian from 2000-2005 along with Mandrake/Mandriva, Lindows/Linspire and just wasn't there yet while Ubuntu was. Debian was it's own worst enemy, either moving at glacial pace or bleeding edge so badly that it needed to be kept after worse then Windows in my experience.

    Every other distro save for Red Hat these days is just a half working for regular people hobbyist distro only for geeks that want to debate over if it's GNU/Linux or not. Don't belive me, go look at the Steam distro statistics breakdowns. Red Hat/CentOS only exists to serve the needs of the Big Iron server staff, they aren't really meant for use as a desktop OS.

    If you think that there would be Lightworks, or any of the games that has moved in including the Humble Bundles on Linux without Ubuntu you are dead wrong. If it wasn't for Ubuntu the most interesting gaming news for Linux would have been Doom 3 and the death of the LGP. I doubt that Frictional would have even released their Penumbra games on Linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Funny of you to mention that, because ThinkPenguin just made a deal with Mint, they donate money to Mint for every computer they sell with Mint preinstalled...
    Your point? While Mint Mate edition is a good respin of Ubuntu it's still Ubuntu at it's core with a slightly different default package set, like having the restricted codecs installed by default. The standard Mint versions are also far more hassle free then Mint Debian. Mint is really no different then the Ubuntu Studio project which I used instead of the base Ubuntu from the time it was released since they stripped the cruft I didn't need and by default installed the multimedia editing packages I wanted as well as used the real time kernel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serge View Post
    I too don't like the simplistic view. Ubuntu has a lot to recommend it. But Linux users who don't use Ubuntu feel that the development of Ubuntu affects the ecosystem as a whole, and therefore affects them whether they want it to or not. Also, Ubuntu is developed from a base that mostly comes from that ecosystem. Therefore, non-Ubuntu users feel justified in demanding answers. And in that regard there are questions to which there have been no satisfactory answers.
    I'd rather demand answers from them as to why they feel the need to reinvent the wheel a thousand times over. One look at Distrowatch will give you an idea of where I'm going, so many of the distros are just a waste of duplicated effort. If they wanted to change something instead of lord over their little kingdom that nobody cares about they'd actually go and do it in one of the distros that is actually worth a damn.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    What's bothering me (to add to the list) is that new users who come to Ubuntu see this different, inferior, yet controlled software stack. It's highly likely that they will assume that the rest of the Linux distributions are like that as well, while it's far from being the case. And if their Mir-only apps don't work with Wayland, good luck trying to explain why.
    So you point them to the PPA that fixes their problems. The average Windows user moving over to Ubuntu is used to modifying things in windows with 3rd party apps, what they aren't used to is the Linux world's repository system or the command line.

  5. #35
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    Default Think not 1337 but longterm

    No, no, no people. This isn't about keeping Linux small or being 1337 or hating common folks. The Linux distro model works and it gives its users ample protection against distributors going rogue. Hypothetically, Fedora loses it? Go OpenSUSE and know you'll find the same programs and nearly the same environment there that you did on Fedora. The diversity is also a protection against large scale, automated malware infections. It fosters improvements and cross-polination.

    One can say "To hell with ideology" but it is the FOSS ethos that kept Linux going against a slew of vicious attacks from the CSS world over the years. Ramming Ubuntu as the "One and Only" distro choice in place of Windows will land you in the same frying pan that you just escaped from by leaving Windows. Canonical going it alone is good for Canonical. Short term it might deliver some users some benefit, but long term you'll be just as locked in with Ubuntu as you were with Windows or Mac OS X.

    As Canonical makes their system increasingly a thing of its own, you slowly lose the benefits of using a Linux distro, which is a diverse family of operating systems, where gained knowledge is largely transferable from one distro to another. That probably isn't a horror story to someone who doesn't give a fuck about what makes his/her computer run or to people still mired in Windows think. It's just ashame that you are unable to see the walls that Canonical is erecting in the name of "user friendliness".

    It doesn't matter if Ubuntu is released under a collection of FOSS licenses, if Canonical is the only one providing it, you are locked in to their specific creation. It's the same as Android, Windows or Mac OS X. It lets you do computing and most of it works, but what your master says goes. But if sustained computing freedom under a commonly developed (by hobbyists and corporations alike) platform isn't hot anymore, I'd say more power to Canonical.

    No, Canonical isn't evil, but they are a business manoeuvring their software offering in ways to exploit uncritical thinking and cement themselves as the only option. It is up to the user to keep a distributor honest.

    Also, this myth that only Ubuntu can be used without a CLI and the rest of the non-buntu desktop distro's need to be bootstrapped by the users themselves and then you need a big book of black magic CLI spells to get it running poorly on your hardware is ridiculous. Anno 2013 all Linux desktop distro's are, bluntly put, point and drool. Which is something I enjoy immensely. Maybe Arch is the exception, but they do go out of their way to cater to the hardcore, 1337 Linux geek.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by r_a_trip View Post
    No, no, no people. This isn't about keeping Linux small or being 1337 or hating common folks. The Linux distro model works and it gives its users ample protection against distributors going rogue. Hypothetically, Fedora loses it? Go OpenSUSE and know you'll find the same programs and nearly the same environment there that you did on Fedora. The diversity is also a protection against large scale, automated malware infections. It fosters improvements and cross-polination.

    One can say "To hell with ideology" but it is the FOSS ethos that kept Linux going against a slew of vicious attacks from the CSS world over the years. Ramming Ubuntu as the "One and Only" distro choice in place of Windows will land you in the same frying pan that you just escaped from by leaving Windows. Canonical going it alone is good for Canonical. Short term it might deliver some users some benefit, but long term you'll be just as locked in with Ubuntu as you were with Windows or Mac OS X.

    As Canonical makes their system increasingly a thing of its own, you slowly lose the benefits of using a Linux distro, which is a diverse family of operating systems, where gained knowledge is largely transferable from one distro to another. That probably isn't a horror story to someone who doesn't give a fuck about what makes his/her computer run or to people still mired in Windows think. It's just ashame that you are unable to see the walls that Canonical is erecting in the name of "user friendliness".

    It doesn't matter if Ubuntu is released under a collection of FOSS licenses, if Canonical is the only one providing it, you are locked in to their specific creation. It's the same as Android, Windows or Mac OS X. It lets you do computing and most of it works, but what your master says goes. But if sustained computing freedom under a commonly developed (by hobbyists and corporations alike) platform isn't hot anymore, I'd say more power to Canonical.

    No, Canonical isn't evil, but they are a business manoeuvring their software offering in ways to exploit uncritical thinking and cement themselves as the only option. It is up to the user to keep a distributor honest.

    Also, this myth that only Ubuntu can be used without a CLI and the rest of the non-buntu desktop distro's need to be bootstrapped by the users themselves and then you need a big book of black magic CLI spells to get it running poorly on your hardware is ridiculous. Anno 2013 all Linux desktop distro's are, bluntly put, point and drool. Which is something I enjoy immensely. Maybe Arch is the exception, but they do go out of their way to cater to the hardcore, 1337 Linux geek.
    It's a conspiracy . The Illuminati are behind Canonical

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BO$$ View Post
    You basically declared that you like Ubuntu. Ubuntu is pretty hated around these forums. Prepare for some heavy trolling from the Canonical haters. You have been warned!
    Ubuntu is the best Linux distro out there and by far. I found it funny the sado masochism syndrome of some linux geek users just to please their own ego.

  8. #38
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    @r_a_trip

    sorry for the term, But a lot of what you wrote is BS (or maybe a lack of understanding the big picture or all the strong variables in the equation).

    no one is locked to anything.

    I can switch from ubuntu or unity right now, without much hiccup. In fact I run several distros for different purposes, even BSD.

    And without Android we would have nothing in the mobile space right now.

    Ubuntu-touch will be possible thanks to being able to use those drivers, support and layers from Android. Its open for many project to use.

    Tell me if you can take the windows/WP/osX/iOS improvements, support or drivers and use them on your projects ?

    Like I said before (and probably a million times over the years), If you want Linux/FOSS to balance out the power in the world. It needs to come *PREINSTALLED* in new hardware.

    Even Linus has said it. That's why he's actually proud of Android.

    Only Ubuntu (and somewhat Mint) are working towards this goal and supporting vendors as well as the new users. The other distros have never really give a flying F*** about this, so in a meritocracy you can only get what you work hard for and deserve.

    And sorry but you can NOT win them all. Even HTML5 had to add DRM support. But hey is much better than having to deal with very closed stuff like Flash or silverlight from companies that won't even support us.
    Last edited by madjr; 05-15-2013 at 12:42 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    Ubuntu is the best Linux distro out there and by far. I found it funny the sado masochism syndrome of some linux geek users just to please their own ego.
    You're saying it suits you, which is fine. It doesn't suit me.
    I need to have easily switchable gcc versions installed in parallel. PITA in ubuntu, a breeze in Gentoo.
    I want to quickly switch between proprietary and OSS drivers, PITA (last I checked) in ubuntu, a breeze in Gentoo.
    I want to experiment using systemd. No way in hell that's happening under ubuntu without breaking the entire system.

    All I'm saying is specific distros are for specific needs (not saying all distros out there are needed). Ubuntu isn't bad for the BFU, but it sucks for me.
    Why am I worried about the direction Canonical is taking ubuntu? Because even though I don't use it, their decisions will affect me. That's how big an impact they have. The same can be said about Red Hat, Novell and some others, but those have already passed the test of 'playing nice', which Canonical has failed.

    Personal experience : I am a Gentoo/Chakra user. It has happened more than once that when I pulled out my laptop people were amazed at my setup (granted, highly customized and none of them were BFUs). some of those people tried a different distro and have never looked back.
    The point here is (as has been mentioned several times in the thread) that ubuntu is percieved as THE linux distro, and that's dangerous for all of us FOSS enthusiasts.
    Just look at steam for linux. Using ubuntu specific APIs. That's how it begins.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serafean View Post
    I want to quickly switch between proprietary and OSS drivers, PITA (last I checked) in ubuntu, a breeze in Gentoo.
    Software Sources > Additional Drivers.

    There you go.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Sarmiento View Post
    Ubuntu is the best Linux distro out there and by far. I found it funny the sado masochism syndrome of some linux geek users just to please their own ego.
    I like Ubuntu too (Xubuntu to be exact, but Ubuntu isn't bad either).
    Last edited by Calinou; 05-15-2013 at 12:27 PM.

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