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Thread: Fedora 19 Beta Released With Lots Of New Work

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vim_User View Post
    People new to a distribution shouldn't use a beta version in the first place, the same as people that don't expect bugs shouldn't run a beta version. That is a quite simple concept, that you for some reason don't seem to grasp.
    Its a different thing if you are a noob you should not use betas maybe... but if you used serveral linuxes and compiled your own kernels for 10-15 years it should be possible to do...

    And sorry fedora is pretty different from any distribution. the cooperative design the wiki is pretty crappy but ok debians website sucks too, they have also no official wiki as far as I did not find one ^^ and so on... maybe I am a bit papered by distries like arch/gentoo/ubuntu.

    If anaconda works its not bad. so lets hope the bugs finaly all get fixed till f19 release.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    Its a different thing if you are a noob you should not use betas maybe... but if you used serveral linuxes and compiled your own kernels for 10-15 years it should be possible to do...
    And sorry fedora is pretty different from any distribution. the cooperative design the wiki is pretty... [amusing]
    If anaconda works its not bad. so lets hope the bugs finaly all get fixed till f19 release.
    Yeah, Fedora is different alright. Wikis are Wikis: don't expect much and you'll never be disappointed As a case close to point, the Fedora Project Wiki has a Really Neat sidebar:

    Download Fedora now! (with link)

    Do you want to install Fedora? Read our Quick Install Guide. (with link)

    Join the Fedora Project.

    Read documentation and our FAQ for using and contributing to Fedora. (with link)

    Now, linking the "Quick Install Guide" directly beneath "Download" is pretty good design, except when you Go There, you find "Quick Install Guide" is "still under construction" and -- as you may have noticed -- totally unfit for your intended purpose. Which would be Okay if whoever had written / was writing the "Quick Install Guide" had bothered to follow the "Read documentation" link and noticed it indexes both an "Installation Guide" and an "Installation Quick Start Guide", the latter of which undoubtedly provides all the missing information the "Quick Install Guide" author intended, for which all he need do is provide a direct link. But that would require his reading the documentation...

    I personally don't trust Anaconda much further than I can toss it. Like yourself I do all my disk partitioning and labeling in Gparted from a separate LiveCD or install, recording my labels 'cuz they'll be deleted if Anaconda re-formats the partition and doesn't remember their names. Then I do a bog standard Desktop or Workstation installation -- no extras -- and am certain not to have an internet upgrade repository selected during the install. Everything from DVD or pen drive. Less to go wrong, unless I'm installing on brand-new hardware and think I might need the latest kernel to run network, wifi, or graphics. Then open a terminal and do "yum update rpm yum", "yum update NetworkManager", "yum update kernel", "yum update glibc" and "yum update" (in that order) before rebooting and opening Package Mangler and installing any additional stuff I want from the network. Takes a bit longer, but can save a lot of time.

    Anyway, glad to hear you're sorted, and thanks for the apologies.
    Last edited by pipe13; 06-01-2013 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Add personal Anaconda precautions

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipe13 View Post
    Now, linking the "Quick Install Guide" directly beneath "Download" is pretty good design, except when you Go There, you find "Quick Install Guide" is "still under construction" and -- as you may have noticed -- totally unfit for your intended purpose. Which would be Okay if whoever had written / was writing the "Quick Install Guide" had bothered to follow the "Read documentation" link and noticed it indexes both an "Installation Guide" and an "Installation Quick Start Guide", the latter of which undoubtedly provides all the missing information the "Quick Install Guide" author intended, for which all he need do is provide a direct link. But that would require his reading the documentation...
    That was just a link to the old draft in the wiki that someone had forgotten to update to the published link. Fixed. FYI, anyone can sign up for a Fedora account in a few mins (to avoid spammers) and have direct edit access to the wiki.

  4. #24
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    I installed the 19 beta two days ago, and although I haven't had as much time to play around with it as I would like, I can at least confirm that Anaconda in 19 is indeed tremendously improved. Overall, the whole release feels polished and ready. I don't get the impression that I'm using beta software at all. But like I said, I haven't played with it enough to form a solid opinion or discover any bugs yet.

  5. #25
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    Default Still not there.

    I created a multi-disk VM specifically in-order to test if the F19B's (new-)anaconda storage manager reached some type of feature parity with the old (pre-F18) anaconda.
    At least as far as I can see, the new-anaconda still doesn't support RAID+LVM combo (let alone really complex setups), and the LVM UI is still *very* cumbersome and overly sophisticated.
    E.g. trying to create the standard boot + LVM (root, home, storage, free space), is far more complex that what it used to.
    In the old anaconda you created two partitions (boot, LVM) and then went into the LVM configuration and created the remaining LVM volumes (home, storage).
    In the new anaconda (deep breath...) you:
    1. Create 6 partitions (boot, root, home, storage, temp).
    2. Manually edit 5 partitions (root, home, storage, temp), marking them as LVM and slowly editing the different LVM attributes (E.g. LVM name). Any mistake at this stage is deadly, as the left bar is missing an indication whether or not a partition is an LVM member (let alone the LVM name) or not.

    As it stands, its far easier (for me) to simply bypass the anaconda storage manager altogether, manually creating and activating the software RAID and LVM and using the anaconda storage manager only to assign mount points to the different volumes...

    As much as I like Fedora, I must admit that the new anaconda is still very immature and far from being RHEL 7 capable.

    - Gilboa

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    Its a different thing if you are a noob you should not use betas maybe... but if you used serveral linuxes and compiled your own kernels for 10-15 years it should be possible to do...
    But in this case you are also experienced enough to expect bugs in a beta, you are able to find out how to reproduce it and report it to actually get it fixed, instead of whining on a random forum about it.

    debians website sucks too, they have also no official wiki as far as I did not find one
    So your expert knowledge was not good enough to type "Debian Wiki" into your favorite search engine or just click on the "Support" link on Debian's website to get a link to the wiki? That says more about you than about the websites, I would think.
    If anaconda works its not bad. so lets hope the bugs finaly all get fixed till f19 release.
    Again, how should they fix bugs that don't get reported?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vim_User View Post
    But in this case you are also experienced enough to expect bugs in a beta, you are able to find out how to reproduce it and report it to actually get it fixed, instead of whining on a random forum about it.

    So your expert knowledge was not good enough to type "Debian Wiki" into your favorite search engine or just click on the "Support" link on Debian's website to get a link to the wiki? That says more about you than about the websites, I would think.Again, how should they fix bugs that don't get reported?
    Yes I except of course bugs in betas, I even except bugs in stable releases... but not in the installer, the whole point is to be able to test the distro to find bugs. if nobody is able to install the distro nobody will find bugs in the distro.

    Ok maybe its here a special case because of this anaconda switch, maybe I am here pampered by debian or ubuntu, becuase (if you want lvm stuff you need the alternate installer in ubuntu which is the debian installer) always everything works ever even in each alpha.

    I maybe used the wrong types of linuxes that just worked ever. So I did not learn that basic stuff can break.

    maybe it has also to do with the fact that with any good linux, so any linux I used distro-upgrade is a thing that works always... debian based and rolling release based distros. So I see the installers only very very seldom, maybe they are also more buggy then I have seen.

    It sucks just most, if you have a somewhat working linux and maybe even your x-server does not start at least I know where to find what logs and all resolutions are basicly more or less distro-independend, but to fix or debug a installer problem is really bad. Because yes I could make screenshots or maybe there are some from me unknown logs...


    But yes maybe I ranted a bit, at least it seems to fixed my problem... and here many start to talk about fedora in a basicly dead thread so yes trolling somethimes can be constructive and lead faster to a goal.

    Like I said if somebody took that personal I am sorry but please stop insulting me just because I said maybe something bad about your distro.


    And on top that the homepage looks liek written by paid developers that hate their work. with wiki I mean something like ubuntuusers, yes even as pro I like such sites. The fedora wiki looks a bit 80er or 90er-ish. style.

    More like a manual. and the bugtracker everything hurts my eyes. as other example look at the archwiki, its 100 times better than this company-targeted wiki sites of fedora.



    One such example of this wiki content as example its not only the bad style... is that somewhere it says that distro-upgrades are not recomment. omg... of course I reinstall my distri every 6 months.
    Last edited by blackiwid; 06-02-2013 at 07:26 AM.

  8. #28
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    blackiwid,

    Your comments are (very) long, and *very* repetitive make them unreadable (at least to me).
    If you want to be taken seriously and/or have an informative debate with someone, you should really, (really!) consider switching tactic.

    BTW, trolling *never* works (unless you're enjoy being ignored).

    - Gilboa

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilboa View Post
    blackiwid,

    Your comments are (very) long, and *very* repetitive make them unreadable (at least to me).
    If you want to be taken seriously and/or have an informative debate with someone, you should really, (really!) consider switching tactic.

    BTW, trolling *never* works (unless you're enjoy being ignored).

    - Gilboa
    You are so wrong, I did not get ignored someone said I should make screenshots that was a helpful information, and as a accident it even caused a successful installation of fedora.
    I insulted nobody personaly and if you really cant take it, just ignore me really not react. you say I only get ignoring but even from you I get not ignored.


    I did not want to make a debatte I wanted solutions for my problem, I did get it... so it worked, but it sounds like that was pure taktic, It was out of frustration...
    I am a developer so I am used to that you can do everything, you have only push hard enough... I dont have the time to wait 1-2 weeks for answers of a bug... so to make it not longer I stop here...

    * btw for a normal bug I can wait longer, but not a total show-stopper-bug.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilboa View Post
    As it stands, its far easier (for me) to simply bypass the anaconda storage manager altogether, manually creating and activating the software RAID and LVM and using the anaconda storage manager only to assign mount points to the different volumes...
    As much as I like Fedora, I must admit that the new anaconda is still very immature and far from being RHEL 7 capable.
    - Gilboa
    While I agree with minimal use of Anaconda, there (apparently) were reasons for dumping the old one and starting from scratch. Those I can think of are improved graphics and multi-threading. So I'm wondering if it will be possible in some future iteration to just launch gparted and system-config-lvm directly from Anaconda, thus maintaining some semblance of consistency between the install tools and the installed. (Pure speculation dept. One additional quirk is such tools require fairly complete online documentation. Gparted is good as-is, its manual is accessed from its Help menu. Somebody (yeah yeah, I know) would have to convert the lvm man page to html appropriate for the system-config-lvm gui. Then there's mdadm, which hasn't yet a gui at all. (Actually... Hmmmm. Am I [I]that[/] desperate for another time sync?)
    Last edited by pipe13; 06-02-2013 at 11:30 AM.

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