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Thread: SphinUX OS Claims To Be ~150% Faster Than GNU/Linux

  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uqbar View Post
    Hi Ahmad.
    I think I am in an even worse situation than yours. I am Italian, living in Italy. Full stop. :-)
    Try to survive two revolutions in 3 years -_- "consider the second one a coup if you wish", waaaay too unstable, whenever you try to build something right, politics interfere

    Quote Originally Posted by Uqbar View Post
    Nonetheless, I live in that crazy world where PI equals to 3.1415926535..., "while( TRUE );" is an endless loop and "Y is 150% more than X" means "Y = X*2.5".
    I can understand infinity "I wish", both in PI and in a while(true); loop, but if there's one thing I never got right, is the Egyptian percentage (consider it a standard), +150% means y=(x*1.5), It's some kind of a bad translation+a flunked in math second grader doing your technical writing for you, imagine if that second grader was a fanatic in a politically disturbed area, where anything is considered a (proof of our superiority) -_- nonsense, and I am not into that, honestly, I don't claim to be a victim, but I had no other way, it's not as fun as it sounds -_- (yuppie, We're gonna build a Linux distro and take over the entire world as the most intellectually sophisticated race among humanity, no, among the entire universe "both known and unknown"), deal with it, this is how people see "Educational projects" in a "not sure if we are a great" nation, if it should be considered a nation at all -_-", it could be dangerous BTW

    Quote Originally Posted by Uqbar View Post
    In the very same world I can claim whatever I want and am prepared to receive anything in between critics and death sentences, especially when my claims have some chance not to be fully true.
    Then I can either give up or fight back the challenges with my ideas and facts.
    I for one appreciate your apologies and can also understand your points.
    I don't blame you, It's all our fault, plus, I've seen things in the past three years that might make it easy for you to convince me that Santa is real "He's not, that's not another crazy claim"

    Quote Originally Posted by Uqbar View Post
    But, please, keep in mind these 10 things:

    0. Words matter, numbers matter even more.
    1. You need to (be prepared to) proof your claims in a number of different ways.
    I wouldn't agree more, yet, I wouldn't prove anything, simply, I stopped caring, the numbers are not true, the docs were written by fanatics from the SphinUX Community "yes, we have a +4K active community", simply, It's easier to prove that Santa exists "1+1=10 (in decimal please)".
    in other words, here's a Linux based OS, if you like it, use it, if you don't, please tell us how would you like your StdBaseFS "I'd like mine overcooked"

    Quote Originally Posted by Uqbar View Post
    Otherwise you'll be bringing "yet another eCAT" (hence my 1st line joke).
    In my opinion, finally, those 10 points are valid also in real life.
    At least you don't have a military scientist "ranked: General" who managed to build a device that can turn AIDS into "Kofta - meat balls on a stick http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kofta"
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ures-Aids.html
    See what I am talking about?! it's embedded in our culture craaaaazy claaaaaims not as crazy as the one mentioned in this topic, but fanatics would make it "Reasonable enough" for you to believe and if you didn't, you will, they'll just apply a tiny bit of force"
    SphinUX OS is not a scam, what fanatics say is.
    problem is, if you can't talk, no one would know so if you understand politics as much as you understand BIN(2)=10 , you might get my point here

    Quote Originally Posted by Uqbar View Post
    Good luck with your projects!
    Thanks, not my project, not alone at least

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by SphinUXer View Post
    I know this might sound ridiculous, yet, I'll say it anyway ...
    (...)First I'll be introducing myself, since I don't like to hold the position of "The shady guy from Egypt"
    I am just another *nix user, I don't care about licenses, all I care about is hacking stuff, that's it, I don't like the idea of "lots of users, no contribution"
    the real name is "Ahmad Gaber", age 23, male obviously -or not-, and I am just the core dev for this project.
    this project started as an "Egyptian Linux distribution" then we got crazy about adding flashy stuff, and we learned it -the hard way- that this is a BAD IDEA !!!

    performance claims?! miss-translated, miss-understood, and definitely illogical -as it sounds-, yet, as the mentality of the Egyptian people -which is pretty much weird- isn't clear, it's always the more flashy and heavily modded the thing is -like a NY cab, but with the cab driver sayin' that he has PhD- the more it's considered valuable, it's silly yet what makes things worse, is when you say that your thing is 150% faster, it means that it's gooood, real gooooooood, it can do 150% stuff more on the same machine, silly, yet it's the "common guy's language".
    (...)

    That's it for now, again, we apologize, and we would love to hear anything from you, things have changed, I promise

    Thanks for your time, and sorry for my bad English
    Thank you for honesty and bridging the gap between the claims and the reality.

    But you have to stay clear that even your example with PhD is maybe a misunderstanding of yours. The claims were not: 150% faster, they were fairly speciffic like this quote from original Phoronix article:
    "SpinUX documentation also states, "The kernel proved to process 100% faster than the Linux kernel, memory consumption is 300% less, and I/O is 50% better than the Linux kernel." "
    These claims are understood as hard numbers. In fact as I'm aware there was NO benchmark, no methodology. I have a laptop with a disk that gets sometimes (in bursts) more than 100 MB/s (with SATA1). If I take the claim on face value, it would mean that SpinUX would work on my laptop faster than the physical speed of controller. If the statement is said, and I can prove it as it is false, it remains false, regardless of your language difference!

    Let me say in my view, I write most of my life two kinds of software:
    - desktop, boring UI stuff (sometimes is intereting, but is beyond the point) with .Net;
    - I write a compiler. The documentation and even the blog have all the time caveats, describing for example bugs, or limitations. Even the case when I have a very good performance profile, I put the caveat: "this is a bad benchmark"

    This was the problem (excluding the licenses part) as for me: if the claims were written with caveats in language, or at least using "weasel words" like: "up-to 300%", even it would sound incredible, it will be on the "oh, it is a small use-case".

    It is (no offense) like any other claim you will say and is taken on the face value. If not, it is exactly (regardless of numbers) just boasting for anyone else. I don't know, but someone saying: I have a PhD, and eventually you hear that his degree is just highschool, wouldn't sound dishonest for you, if this taxi driver you set as an example would say this just to have you as a customer?

    I think that a bit of modesty is what defines most moral systems, even Islam (I'm atheist btw) as a good character. Otherwise, it is a natural reaction for the claims and no one is guilty of "misunderstanding" the claims.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Thank you for honesty and bridging the gap between the claims and the reality.

    But you have to stay clear that even your example with PhD is maybe a misunderstanding of yours. The claims were not: 150% faster, they were fairly speciffic like this quote from original Phoronix article:
    "SpinUX documentation also states, "The kernel proved to process 100% faster than the Linux kernel, memory consumption is 300% less, and I/O is 50% better than the Linux kernel." "
    These claims are understood as hard numbers. In fact as I'm aware there was NO benchmark, no methodology. I have a laptop with a disk that gets sometimes (in bursts) more than 100 MB/s (with SATA1). If I take the claim on face value, it would mean that SpinUX would work on my laptop faster than the physical speed of controller. If the statement is said, and I can prove it as it is false, it remains false, regardless of your language difference!
    I beg to differ, the PhD example was a "real life situation for us, it's as bad as this, we have jobless Civil Engineers", but that's not what I meant, the point is, when the real value is gone, it's all about bells and whistles trust me, I don't like those claims, PR, marketing, and we had arguments "internally" about the effectiveness of this strategy "tell recent times, when few things changed, and we managed to get rid of some fanatics"

    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Let me say in my view, I write most of my life two kinds of software:
    - desktop, boring UI stuff (sometimes is intereting, but is beyond the point) with .Net;
    - I write a compiler. The documentation and even the blog have all the time caveats, describing for example bugs, or limitations. Even the case when I have a very good performance profile, I put the caveat: "this is a bad benchmark"

    This was the problem (excluding the licenses part) as for me: if the claims were written with caveats in language, or at least using "weasel words" like: "up-to 300%", even it would sound incredible, it will be on the "oh, it is a small use-case".
    It might not sound shocking, but I can assure you that "me, personally, did no official benchmarks aside from the look at my wobbly windows, they are cool, yuppie, and of course I didn't publish that as official documentation", another thing, no dev has written no docs when we are mentioning CheopX seriously, it's all Bullshit

    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    It is (no offense) like any other claim you will say and is taken on the face value. If not, it is exactly (regardless of numbers) just boasting for anyone else. I don't know, but someone saying: I have a PhD, and eventually you hear that his degree is just highschool, wouldn't sound dishonest for you, if this taxi driver you set as an example would say this just to have you as a customer?

    I think that a bit of modesty is what defines most moral systems, even Islam (I'm atheist btw) as a good character. Otherwise, it is a natural reaction for the claims and no one is guilty of "misunderstanding" the claims.
    I wouldn't care if he has a PhD or not I'd prefer to get to my destination as quickly as possible, yet, morally, aside from your beliefs "which I totally respect", it's not valid and it's entirely against what I'd believe is right !!!

    I am not here to accuse you of miss-understanding us, I am here to apologize for the fanatics claims, and to give something in return I realize what you understood and it's justified by "Logic", and to be clear, I am on your side not justifying the numbers nor the claims, we got fed up from the way the project was managed

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by SphinUXer View Post
    ... the Egyptian percentage (consider it a standard), +150% means y=(x*1.5)
    I think this is your main issue, my friend.
    If you are a technician, you really know what actually works and what doesn't. And every other technician would agree with you.
    But when it comes to "communication", I would suggest you to first check those kind of basics against what "the Internet means" tm by the same things.
    May the Almighty/the Force be with you! And with our countries.

    P.S.
    We also had three revolutions in 11 months, but as people use to call it "politics" none really complained.

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by SphinUXer View Post
    I beg to differ, the PhD example was a "real life situation for us, it's as bad as this, we have jobless Civil Engineers", but that's not what I meant, the point is, when the real value is gone, it's all about bells and whistles trust me, I don't like those claims, PR, marketing, and we had arguments "internally" about the effectiveness of this strategy "tell recent times, when few things changed, and we managed to get rid of some fanatics"

    It might not sound shocking, but I can assure you that "me, personally, did no official benchmarks aside from the look at my wobbly windows, they are cool, yuppie, and of course I didn't publish that as official documentation", another thing, no dev has written no docs when we are mentioning CheopX seriously, it's all Bullshit
    [...]
    I am not here to accuse you of miss-understanding us, I am here to apologize for the fanatics claims, and to give something in return I realize what you understood and it's justified by "Logic", and to be clear, I am on your side not justifying the numbers nor the claims, we got fed up from the way the project was managed
    Let me reiterate:
    1 - I think that 12 pages out of 14 on this topic (at least) were on the position that your user was on the part of original claims were shown on Phoronix. You (or the user who posted with your account) wrote that everything is justified, but just have to be tried out
    2 - Because of this, people complained. People did not complain out of hate, but complained because of the claims.

    So your insertion with: "Egypt has a different culture" has little bearing on the hard numbers were quoted, the license name you choose to follow by modifying the Linux kernel, etc. Also, the any extra arguments: users of the SphinUX wrote this or that, you are responsible (if you are the owner) of them.

    At last, but not at least, my criticism (or I can almost generalize for everyone who did the same) is not a branch of logic but a branch of philosophy (in the strictest sense), in fact is named: proving an argument.

    It has many parts like:
    - make your claims consistent with logic (when you fail, are named logical fallacies)
    - make them consistent with reality (like publishing a science paper format, so it would be open to criticism and corrections)
    - give measurable arguments, numbers (observations, like in science)
    - the other part is to make correct qualifiers (it would be incorrect to say: every PhD is a taxi driver, even as you would say, some are)
    - and others.

    I am here to say: yes, you said in the "apology post" (I would name it: "half apology, half excuses post") that numbers are wrong and you pick a wrong license, but if you look in your previous posts you did other things wrong, and many overlap over many things like:
    - attack of character of Richard Stallman and many RMS fans (I'm not one of them) would feel a bit attacked, to say it nicely
    - you said: "11- We'd not start sentences with "we" anymore, it's ridiculous and self-centered " but I think almost all post uses: "We ..."

    What I would recommend to you to do:
    - try to make a publishable paper. Publish it if possible, or at least give a direct link to people so it can be easily disseminated what is engineering and what is "fan boy" message. It would save your time too, you can say: read this link.
    - make a video conference that shows ups&downs (maybe a Google hangout or a Twitter feed to get questions if enough people come)
    - record a full video with some use-cases where your OS does shine, use VirtualBox for this if you have no other idea
    - don't blame PR, even he is at fault. In IT is always the project fault, the team fault, not the person's fault. When Linux fails to boot, you don't say: is the fault of Andrew or Linus or any developer who makes the commit, you say is the fault of the Linux. When you apologize, you should stay clear that the fault cannot lie in one or two people. When one people failed and no one did something, all team failed (from outside at least), and the apology should follow this conventions! When Steve Jobs (even he was a superstar) he critized Adobe, not the engineer on the Virtual Machines team.
    - you say: "give to me the false claims to correct them". Disproving bad information takes time, and some people do not have it. In fact I would recommend just the opposite: say what you know is true of any parts of your projects (even there are just two claims) and add information which remain true. You will save the trouble for future criticism!

    Wish to you luck and less trouble in future!

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uqbar View Post
    I think this is your main issue, my friend.
    If you are a technician, you really know what actually works and what doesn't. And every other technician would agree with you.
    But when it comes to "communication", I would suggest you to first check those kind of basics against what "the Internet means" tm by the same things.
    May the Almighty/the Force be with you! And with our countries.

    P.S.
    We also had three revolutions in 11 months, but as people use to call it "politics" none really complained.
    That is valid only if the guy who wrote the entire documentation was a devel from the core team, fact is, we had community documentation uploaded to the "public servers", it means anyone can create a doc and send it to the moderator to post it "the moderator doesn't read them, just upload it"
    ridiculous examples:
    - a copy from some man page
    https://www.sphinux.org/view.php?f=T...Uc1TzQzdlgrREY

    - some help brochures that are absolutely unnecessary
    https://www.sphinux.org/view.php?f=e...Nk00SUY5UlE9PQ

    https://www.sphinux.org/view.php?f=e...dXdBREpsSlE9PQ

    so consider it a wiki, with novice fanatics, that would be the result, the community itself isn't a single block, different ppl, different ideologies, different motivations so it's expected to have this kind of "nonsense", we had the same issue with other Arabic speaking users till this interview took place "it's in Arabic, but it starts with insults, ends with kisses"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=encO0Qel-Qg

    and it's not that I don't understand "basic fractions and percentages", it's because I didn't write these stuff out -_-

    Oh, not revolutions, not even close if you had a chance to visit Egypt, I'd be happy to show you how a revolution affects everyone, problem is, The project started out at a time when several ideologies were at conflict, armed conflict a radical regime looking for some "accomplishment" to prove it's "success" picked up SphinUX among several unrelated projects, and things went from bad to worse, when that regime was replaced by a military dictatorship, we had a better chance to talk, and by the time we got rid of the "interns" we came out of the "devel" closet...

    good luck, three revolutions ROFL XD XD

  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciplogic View Post
    Let me reiterate:
    1 - I think that 12 pages out of 14 on this topic (at least) were on the position that your user was on the part of original claims were shown on Phoronix. You (or the user who posted with your account) wrote that everything is justified, but just have to be tried out
    2 - Because of this, people complained. People did not complain out of hate, but complained because of the claims.

    So your insertion with: "Egypt has a different culture" has little bearing on the hard numbers were quoted, the license name you choose to follow by modifying the Linux kernel, etc. Also, the any extra arguments: users of the SphinUX wrote this or that, you are responsible (if you are the owner) of them.

    At last, but not at least, my criticism (or I can almost generalize for everyone who did the same) is not a branch of logic but a branch of philosophy (in the strictest sense), in fact is named: proving an argument.

    It has many parts like:
    - make your claims consistent with logic (when you fail, are named logical fallacies)
    - make them consistent with reality (like publishing a science paper format, so it would be open to criticism and corrections)
    - give measurable arguments, numbers (observations, like in science)
    - the other part is to make correct qualifiers (it would be incorrect to say: every PhD is a taxi driver, even as you would say, some are)
    - and others.

    I am here to say: yes, you said in the "apology post" (I would name it: "half apology, half excuses post") that numbers are wrong and you pick a wrong license, but if you look in your previous posts you did other things wrong, and many overlap over many things like:
    - attack of character of Richard Stallman and many RMS fans (I'm not one of them) would feel a bit attacked, to say it nicely
    - you said: "11- We'd not start sentences with "we" anymore, it's ridiculous and self-centered " but I think almost all post uses: "We ..."

    What I would recommend to you to do:
    - try to make a publishable paper. Publish it if possible, or at least give a direct link to people so it can be easily disseminated what is engineering and what is "fan boy" message. It would save your time too, you can say: read this link.
    - make a video conference that shows ups&downs (maybe a Google hangout or a Twitter feed to get questions if enough people come)
    - record a full video with some use-cases where your OS does shine, use VirtualBox for this if you have no other idea
    - don't blame PR, even he is at fault. In IT is always the project fault, the team fault, not the person's fault. When Linux fails to boot, you don't say: is the fault of Andrew or Linus or any developer who makes the commit, you say is the fault of the Linux. When you apologize, you should stay clear that the fault cannot lie in one or two people. When one people failed and no one did something, all team failed (from outside at least), and the apology should follow this conventions! When Steve Jobs (even he was a superstar) he critized Adobe, not the engineer on the Virtual Machines team.
    - you say: "give to me the false claims to correct them". Disproving bad information takes time, and some people do not have it. In fact I would recommend just the opposite: say what you know is true of any parts of your projects (even there are just two claims) and add information which remain true. You will save the trouble for future criticism!

    Wish to you luck and less trouble in future!
    First, thanks, that's a respectful comment, and I highlighted some precious points ...
    but before I might discuss a few points, I'd like to state that from now on, I'll have full responsibility for any statement "till a spokesman elections take place", our PGP key will be displayed by each comment, this might make things more official for the moment.
    and I don't find excuses, I didn't refer to hatred at all, we take full responsibility, and we realize the current situation, and if it wasn't a concern by us to set things up, I would've dumped the project long time ago, but it has good potentials, so it's a full apology+reaching for your opinion.

    NOTES:
    I don't control the users the project belongs to no one, it's a community see: https://www.facebook.com/groups/SphinUX.OS/
    We like RMS
    11- was a joke

    now what matters is to discuss how to fix things guess we're on the same track now

    suggestions:
    1- we published drafts, it's not full, but v1.1 WILL NOT GO BETA BEFORE FULLY DOCUMENTED ...
    https://www.sphinux.org/view.php?f=K...kVRbVp5bW0yVT0

    2- already done (last year), unfortunately in Arabic, but will try to create a live broadcast for English users "but that should be after we hit the stable, right?!"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=encO0Qel-Qg

    3- we made a video for the tool that should be used to redistribute the StdBaseFS, it's a test as well, but I guess official video tutorials would be nice, what would you say about that?
    https://www.sphinux.org/view.php?f=N...b0R1aWNRK2c9PQ

    4- we blame ourselves, totally understood, that's why I am here in the first place to admit that it's a "[FAIL]" and if it's someone to blame, it's the core team, but when I say that we had "internal issues", I am not justifying, I am showing the causality behind this nonsense

    5- Maybe the FAQ section in the new portal would fix this?!
    https://www.sphinux.org/cats/faq/

    appreciate your help thanks


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  8. #138
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    6,607

    Default

    @SphinUXer

    A nice way would be a nightly/daily generated iso. We have that for Kanotix since while now and it helps users to install always the lastest code with very few updates the day you dl it. I hope you do not build it manually, that would be a huge fail in current times with the Debian live framework around. Basically i could add arabian lang files to my own distro, but i do not understand the language, so you wont find it If you want to take a look at our KDE/LXDE spins based on wheezy (dragonfire) or jessie (spitfire) fetch it from here.

    http://nightly.kanotix.acritox.com/latest/

  9. #139
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kano View Post
    @SphinUXer

    A nice way would be a nightly/daily generated iso. We have that for Kanotix since while now and it helps users to install always the lastest code with very few updates the day you dl it. I hope you do not build it manually, that would be a huge fail in current times with the Debian live framework around. Basically i could add arabian lang files to my own distro, but i do not understand the language, so you wont find it If you want to take a look at our KDE/LXDE spins based on wheezy (dragonfire) or jessie (spitfire) fetch it from here.

    http://nightly.kanotix.acritox.com/latest/
    we already have implemented an automated build script on one of our servers, unfortunately we are not using Debian live scripts to accomplish anything but to have a live system "wont use it to build an iso" since we already have something we call "StdBaseFS" which has a set of standard mechanisms to build a clean iso and it has a GUI wizard that a novice user might find easy to use

    "our problem with the debian live framework is the alien syntax -_-"

    this directory is updated daily, and it hosts the new StdBaseFS project files and new distributions built upon it
    https://www.sphinux.org/basefs/

    if you need help in translation or adding Arabic support, we have translators that might be glad to help you

    thanks

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