Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 39

Thread: Oracle To Work On Mesa Driver For VirtualBox

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    MA, USA
    Posts
    1,386

    Default

    I'd rather oracle focus on GPU passthrough than a new improved virtual GPU (unless the virtual one happens to do a very good job). Virtualbox has been my favorite VM for desktop purposes due to being easy to set up but offers advanced features you can add in the config files. It's a shame oracle pretty much gave up on it though. I'm considering using qemu somewhat soon.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    Niether Virtualbox nor VMware are suitable for gaming, nor will they be anytime soon. it's funny that you would even consider this to be an option, since generally, games are written to be 'on the metal' NOT in an emulated environment (running on top of an entire OS to boot. lol... that should be obvious!). So it's no surprise (whatsoever) that you are getting better performance out of wine in the slightest.

    As others have pointed you need VGA passthrough to get anywhere in a VM ~ since you can assign a GFX card to your guest and use native drivers. (ie: straight to the metal).



    wrong on so many levels. ie: please go and fact check before making such obviously incorrect statements. 8 years ago Transgaming Inc. had commercial product(s) using Wine, for that explicit purpose; gaming in wine. Obviously, upstream wine was also able to run games at this point too; although for a while there, Transgaming 'apparently' had some advantages, that is, until Wine's development pace surprised what Transgaming could offer. You also might want to explain how this 2005 post would even exist, if what you say is true? (have fun with that...lol) http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=101167 .... for that matter, you can explain these articles, as well;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransGaming_Inc.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedega_%28software%29
    http://wiki.winehq.org/WineHistory



    wrong. read my first comment. in this case, it is about being faster. (in the context of running in a VM, indirect / translated calls vs. native drivers / VGA passthrough).

    ...and if you can't get qemu to work, Xen + vga passthrough is another option.

    I hate playing quoting games... So I'm not going to do it with you. If you consider quoting games a skill, then consider yourself skillful.

    You have to understand how wine rates playability before you can spout off with that nonsense. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. Needless to say that things -have- -in fact- gotten much better in the last 2-3 years. I don't need or want to pay a commercial service to tweak wine with game specific optimizations. Games should "just work". And wine -is- getting much better at "just work"ing. And I hate to burst your bubble but wine doesnt work on bare metal. There is a very expensive translation from d3d to ogl. Even ogl to ogl is reasonably expensive.

    And faster is rarely better. If I'm able to play my games at max settings with my monitors max resolution at 60FPS, then who cares if it can run faster? Just with the last release of wine Star Trek Online became playable for the first time ever, and it plays maxed out. So who cares if it can run faster? It's -already- playing maxed out.

    You can claim that I'm wrong, but I'm not. It is -in fact- a fact that wine does play games better that virtualbox. I'm not wrong on that. It is -in fact- a fact that wine gaming has improved tremendously in the last 2-3 years. So much so that many games are becoming playable for the first time ever without requiring special tweaks or customizations. No need for Transgaming. No need for Cedega. I absolutely refuse to pay to play.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    And in this case, faster is better. Wine already covers most of the other things that makes it better.
    I can't disagree with you more. I linux accurate rendering is far more valuable. Especially when considering windows games. Most games that do actually run on wine, run maxed out anyway... Faster is very rarely better.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Vilnius, Lithuania
    Posts
    2,601

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    I can't disagree with you more. I linux accurate rendering is far more valuable. Especially when considering windows games. Most games that do actually run on wine, run maxed out anyway... Faster is very rarely better.
    As you mentioned, Wine adds a translation layer, which decreases game performance. For older games it's fine (for instance, Unreal Engine 1 games run essentially the same performance-wise in Wine as natively), but for newer games, every frame counts (Unreal Engine 3 games being a good example of that). And generally wine is pretty good at accurate rendering as it is.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Russe, Bulgaria
    Posts
    527

    Default

    Or maybe oracle, don't want to run games at all, but want to be able to run accelerated DEs.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    I hate playing quoting games... So I'm not going to do it with you. If you consider quoting games a skill, then consider yourself skillful.
    quoting games?? lol. - Technically, it's called providing citations ~ which is usually what you do, when you want to back up a comment with facts to support them ~ Apperently, your lacking a bit of education on the subject?? no game here, other than by you :\

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    You have to understand how wine rates playability before you can spout off with that nonsense. I'm not going to bother explaining it to you. Needless to say that things -have- -in fact- gotten much better in the last 2-3 years. I don't need or want to pay a commercial service to tweak wine with game specific optimizations. Games should "just work". And wine -is- getting much better at "just work"ing. And I hate to burst your bubble but wine doesnt work on bare metal. There is a very expensive translation from d3d to ogl. Even ogl to ogl is reasonably expensive.
    I know how Wine works, i know all about the appDB, am familiar with wine's internals and hack on wine weekly, thank you very much ~ i am sure i know more about it than you and have been using it as long (or much longer even) than you. I hate to burst your bubble, but i never said wine works on bare metal (although in comparison to running WinXP + game in VM, Wine is a hell of a lot less emulated, even with d3d->opengl)...

    I hate to have to tell you this again - learn to fscking read -> i was referring to VGA passthrough with those comments on 'bare metal' and speed / being faster NOT Wine. And in your case of trying to run a game in a VM - yeah, faster in that context (ie: VGA passthrough) is pretty critical...

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    And faster is rarely better. If I'm able to play my games at max settings with my monitors max resolution at 60FPS, then who cares if it can run faster? Just with the last release of wine Star Trek Online became playable for the first time ever, and it plays maxed out. So who cares if it can run faster? It's -already- playing maxed out.
    again, please learn to comprehend what you have read, before replying. Niether of us were referring to Wine with the faster is better comments - we were referring to VMs, specficially - and how you came to any other conclusion, i do not understand, at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    You can claim that I'm wrong, but I'm not. It is -in fact- a fact that wine does play games better that virtualbox. I'm not wrong on that. It is -in fact- a fact that wine gaming has improved tremendously in the last 2-3 years. So much so that many games are becoming playable for the first time ever without requiring special tweaks or customizations. No need for Transgaming. No need for Cedega. I absolutely refuse to pay to play.
    Again, learn how to read properly. I know Wine plays games better than Virtualbox and told you exactly that, in my very first comment... - so NO, you are not wrong on that, but yeah, you are totally wrong thinking that i said games in Wine didn't play as well as in VM...lol ~ go back and read my comment.
    Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013 at 07:45 PM.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    quoting games?? lol. - Technically, it's called providing citations ~ which is usually what you do, when you want to back up a comment with facts to support them ~ Apperently, your lacking a bit of education on the subject?? no game here, other than by you :\



    I know how Wine works, i know all about the appDB, am familiar with wine's internals and hack on wine weekly, thank you very much ~ i am sure i know more about it than you and have been using it as long (or much longer even) than you. I hate to burst your bubble, but i never said wine works on bare metal (although in comparison to running WinXP + game in VM, Wine is a hell of a lot less emulated, even with d3d->opengl)...

    I hate to have to tell you this again - learn to fscking read -> i was referring to VGA passthrough with those comments on 'bare metal' and speed / being faster NOT Wine. And in your case of trying to run a game in a VM - yeah, faster in that context (ie: VGA passthrough) is pretty critical...



    again, please learn to comprehend what you have read, before replying. Niether of us were referring to Wine with the faster is better comments - we were referring to VMs, specficially - and how you came to any other conclusion, i do not understand, at all.



    Again, learn how to read properly. I know Wine plays games better than Virtualbox and told you exactly that, in my very first comment... - so NO, you are not wrong on that, but yeah, you are totally wrong thinking that i said games in Wine didn't play as well as in VM...lol ~ go back and read my comment.
    As you can plainly see I quoted your entire post. I didnt edit it and I didnt selectively take shit out of context. I refuse to play quoting games. I'll quote the whole thing and respond at once. If you don't like it that way then, Oh well....

    First of all I never said that virtualbox was designed for gaming. I don't know where you got that idea from? I had thought originally it was because I used wine as a comparison for gaming. You must have taken that out of context to mean that I said virtualbox was somehow made for gaming. If -you- actually read what I wrote you'll see that I never said that. Hence the whole wine discussion.

    Second I'm not willing to dedicate a second gpu to a VM. I think the idea of emulating a GPU effectively is attractive on multiple levels. (edit: If it is eventually capable of playing the games I need it to play at the settings and resolutions I need it to play at, then I don't see how faster could possibly be better. You can't change my mind on that....)

    Oh and one other thing..... I before E except after C.
    Last edited by duby229; 06-20-2013 at 08:00 PM.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    As you can plainly see I quoted your entire post. I didnt edit it and I didnt selectively take shit out of context. I refuse to play quoting games. I'll quote the whole thing and respond at once. If you don't like it that way then, Oh well....
    it is common to both provide citations AND break down someone's comments into sections to answer specific points - that does not equal ' quote games'. sorry but no dice. I pointed out some inaccuracies using citations and answered each part of your comment - that isn't playing games - stopping being a half-whit.

    EDIT: i'd also like you to point out in comment #16 where i have quote-mined, omitted parts of your comment, etc. ~ i did no such thing. i broke your comment into 4 parts omitting NOTHING... I didn't take anything out of context, but yeah, in another post i only answered the part i was interested in commenting on (again, common way to answer/quote in a forum... ie: i shouldn't have to quote an entire post to answer one small part. there was no quote-mining or games whatsoever). Do yourself a favor and stop with this nonsense. Quoting in entirety actually is a poorer way of responding to someone's comments ~ since it may or may not be apparent which part of your comment they are responding to.

    but i do understand why you are 'running with' this notion of 'quoting-games' - you obviously did not take it kindly that i pointed out a slew of inaccuracies in your comments; my advice - grow up.

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    First of all I never said that virtualbox was designed for gaming. I don't know where you got that idea from? I had thought originally it was because I used wine as a comparison for gaming. You must have taken that out of context to mean that I said virtualbox was somehow made for gaming. If -you- actually read what I wrote you'll see that I never said that. Hence the whole wine discussion.
    again, you have poor reading comprehension - i never said that *you said* that vbox was designed for gaming - *I said* it wasn't designed for that - there is an obvious difference here. again, take time to understand someone's comment before responding. I took nothing out of context. You said;

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    The majority of games are still unplayable in virtualbox so hopefullly this new driver, however it works out, will improve the situation so that more games are playable. Wine is proving to be better for playing windows games than virtualbox.
    yeah, you are talking about Virtualbox as a possible way to play your games (in the not-so-distant-future due to this new driver). But even with this new driver Vbox still will not be suitable for that, as far as VMs, you need VGA passthrough.

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Second I'm not willing to dedicate a second gpu to a VM. I think the idea of emulating a GPU effectively is attractive on multiple levels. (edit: If it is eventually capable of playing the games I need it to play at the settings and resolutions I need it to play at, then I don't see how faster could possibly be better. You can't change my mind on that....)
    You will not eventually be able to play games in a VM without a more direct line to the H/W (ie: the faster is better part aka: VGA passthrough).... and i don't have to change your mind on that, it's just a fact.


    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    Oh and one other thing..... I before E except after C.
    I'm a bit dyslectic, i probably just didn't notice the switch, otherwise i would have corrected it. But just a tip - correcting me on spelling is fine and good ~ but next time put more energy into actually understanding what someone has written (before responding), rather than focusing on their spelling. (if you can't do them both at the same time -which apparently you can't).
    Last edited by ninez; 06-20-2013 at 08:44 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Bulgaria for now
    Posts
    166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    8 years ago wine couldnt even start desktop applications, let alone fullscreen 3d games. That pleasure has only been possible in the last 2-3 years. Getting better now. It seems like every 3rd release compatibility improves and more and more of my game collection is becoming playable.
    My experience has been exactly the opposite of this; in the past 2-3 years I've struggled to get anything working in Wine, but eight years ago I used things like FL Studio and full screen games like Age of Empires 2 and Unreal Tournament in Wine just fine.

    This year I've sunk countless hours in trying to get these things working again, with very little success.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    1,353

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ninez View Post
    it is common to both provide citations AND break down someone's comments into sections to answer specific points - that does not equal ' quote games'. sorry but no dice. I pointed out some inaccuracies using citations and answered each part of your comment - that isn't playing games - stopping being a half-whit.



    again, you have poor reading comprehension - i never said that *you said* that vbox was designed for gaming - *I said* it wasn't designed for that - there is an obvious difference here. again, take time to understand someone's comment before responding. I took nothing out of context. You said;



    yeah, you are talking about Virtualbox as a possible way to play your games (in the not-so-distant-future due to this new driver). But even with this new driver Vbox still will not be suitable for that, as far as VMs, you need VGA passthrough.



    You will not eventually be able to play games in a VM without a more direct line to the H/W (ie: the faster is better part aka: VGA passthrough).... and i don't have to change your mind on that, it's just a fact.




    I'm a bit dyslectic, i probably just didn't notice the switch, otherwise i would have corrected it. But just a tip - correcting me on spelling is fine and good ~ but next time put more energy into actually understanding what someone has written (before responding), rather than focusing on their spelling. (if you can't do them both at tyhe same time -which apparently you can't).
    It's not going to happen. I will not play these quoting games with you. I'll continue to quote the whole thing and respond at once. If you arent capable of comprehending what I wrote in the context that it was written in, then that is your fault not mine. In the mean time you can continue to make your attempts to take what I said out of context by jumbling my posts together in whatever order you think you can fuck up the context in. But I refuse to stoop to that level.

    You said that virtualbox wasnt designed for gaming in response to my post! What other context is there to take that in? No duh. I never said that it was. I'm pretty sure it's obvious that windows applications including games were designed to be run on windows running on hardware. That much is plainly obvious and needs no explanation. What do you suppose the point of a virtual machine is then? I can think of one usage that definitely deserves attention... GAMING!! Yes... And in this case a solid virtual GPU is a definite requirement... Which if you took the time to notice that is the ENTIRE point of the article we are responding to.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •