If that was really the case they would have contributed those lines of code and revisions to a nearly-finished product rather than starting over from scratch
Canonical wants to start putting out devices this fall. Wayland's ETA is sometime'ish. "Doing it right" has no value if it never gets done. Canonical seems to want Mir to be compatible with Android drivers and that may be the right call. I imagine the wayland team was about as receptive to working with Canonical as the GNOME project was.
Originally Posted by TheBlackCat
So Mir has more lines of code and more revisions but still does far less than Wayland?
I can use Mir on my Nexus 7 right now and it has multi-touch support. That's more than X or Wayland do. Multi-touch is now the bare minimum expectation on any new device. That's reality.
The increase in lines of code could just aswell be a ton of 'TO-DO' comments or as someone said, lots of different test code which will be pruned once the best approach has been found.
The interesting metric here is what they actually do, I suppose we will see some sort of comparison once Mir is up and running in a state to which it can be compared to Wayland, but until that happens we have no idea of where Mir stands in comparison.
It can be used now on some Nexus devices and it has multi-touch. It's winning already.
This shows that Canonical wants modern graphics features ASAP. I want them too.
Canonical will have Mir as default in 14.04 LTS and that is great. I'm really hoping that I will be using Wayland on my desktop within the next year.
Originally Posted by shaunehunter
Hopefully this controversy will drum up more support for Wayland.
Intel, Redhat, Samsung and Jolla all have upcoming commercial products depending on Wayland. At their current rate Canonical will have beaten them to the jump and I hope they don't sit around and accept that. Some of the most popular Distros are Ubuntu derivatives and I'm hoping this split will accelerate Wayland's development out of necessity.
I'm also hoping that Ubuntu's decision to become it's own entity rather than a Debian derivative will really shake things up. I hope Debian gets some much needed and deserved love and I also hope this thins the herd a little and inspires new collaborations and a reduction in redundant projects.
Originally Posted by shaunehunter
There is always more than one solution to a problem.
Don't hate, appreciate. I don't see how this could turn out bad for FOSS users.
And i think thats exactly why Canonical abandoned wayland. Except technical reasons on phones and tablets, i think the Wayland development rate is too slow for a company whis ambitious plans.
Wayland is on development 2 years and seems that it will take another 1-2 till we see an end-user environment running smooth on a distribution, while Mir in less than six months is running in many phone devices, in less than a year should be ready for phones/tablets and in 13 months from the start of the project will be running as a default on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS/Unity 8!
As an end user i see Canonical as the only company that can compete with google/android, microsoft and apple on OS terms. and in contrary to android, the so weird Linux community will be benefited from a quality display server with big support and developing rate, with a great, fast, productive environment (unity) and the better support from nVidia, AMD and Intel as the OS will become more popular and the gaming thanks to Canonical and Steam will be more popular.
from a Windows user for a decade and Ubuntu user the last 2 years.
According to this, this and this, the reasons weren't at all the development pace. Also, they forked the paths more than a year ago, not less than six months ago.
Also, if a claim I read about in this or another thread is true (I don't know, since the poster never pointed me to any official source), most of the fast development of Mir was due to a HUGE reutilization of Wayland's code. And since Wayland both have already a stable protocol and the two major toolkits and desktops working on it (in beta state, the same as Unity), all of your claims seem to be really overrating Mir on that side.
About support: both nVidia and AMD give good support already on the binary side. So, no news with Mir. AMD gives a somewhat poor support compared to Windows, but that isn't going to change because of Mir, because the breakages are due to kernel updates, not to X.org updates, and the generic release model followed by AMD (support for newer kernels is considered a feature, and feature releases have a far longer internal testing period) is not going to change just because the display server changed.
About great display server: it gives a lot of breakage in support without giving a real tech argument of why it's better. That's not so good. And Unity is not the solution for everything and everyone, so having support for Unity (which I personally don't like) means nothing to me, and to every GNOME, KDE, LXDE, XFCE, WMs, etc, users.
I agree about being the only one in a position to compete on the consumer desktop. I don't really care too much about Android and the mobile platforms.
Originally Posted by k1l_
There are alot of projects who didnt even talk about supporting wayland in near future and now kinda rush in and bring wayland support to the top of the todo to show that they already support wayland and it wouldnt make any more sense to work with MIR. Like KDE told "first we will make the transition to qt5 and then look into wayland" and now everyone at KDE seems busy to work on supporting wayland just to proof the point i meantioned above.
So there is definitively an effect that the MIR announcment had on the wayland supporting.
Lots? KDE and...?
The ones I know weren't interested before are still not interested (WMs, XFCE and LXDE).
Originally Posted by XorEaxEax
or as someone said, lots of different test code which will be pruned once the best approach has been found.
Test code (unit tests) are not supposed to be pruned, nor have anything to do with having found or not the best approach. Is test driven development, it means you write your tests before writing your functions, kind of making an specification of what it must do before coding. Then, you keep your tests as a regression testing.
Originally Posted by kUrb1a
Don't forget that Mir is written in C++ Boost opposed to Wayland which is written in C.
If anything, C++ (I'm not sure about Boost, tho) should keep things more concise than C.
Originally Posted by jrch2k8
Wayland is a PROTOCOL Mir is actually a SERVER like X11 but without the fat, if you can't tell the difference means you are not an engineer or you wasted a lot of time and money in that university. In simple english Mir will always be bigger because Mir actually render and control the clients processes where Wayland don't do anything else than define a new GPU Language specifically designed to handle desktop operations[memory buffer, resource allocation and surface tracking + input] and the client[Qt5/Gtk3/EFL/etc] using the wayland PROTOCOL do everything including rendering.
another thing is that wayland as an PROTOCOL just miss few bits here and there[wayland don't minimize because is a PROTOCOL the clients do] since most of the protocol is in a freeze already and most of those few bits missing will land in 1.2 release[sub surfaces allocations and overlay improvements ].
Qt5.1 + Qtwayland QPA already run quite nice on wayland and gnome 3 git almost works perfectly already if you wanna test it[i recommend gentoo for it, in ubuntu you will loose your sanity trying], so once Qt 5.1 and Gtk+ 3.9[couple of months from now] get released you will have wayland support out of the box and just have to wait for KDE5 and Gnome 3.10/12 releases to have a full wayland desktop
Yes, Wayland is a protocol, which gets implemented as a display server. X11 is a protocol too, which is implemented as a server, too.
And, no, the rendering and the names are unrelated. And that about the GPU language specification, I'm laughing my ass off.
Originally Posted by dh04000
Look at all of those bolded and large font words. I'm eating this up.