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Thread: Fedora 19 Officially Released

  1. #21
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    Adam, Rahul,

    is FedUp going to be the new "recommended" way to upgrade Fedora? Not meaning to bash Fedora per say, but if you want a fully functioning desktop on Fedora (all codecs, plugins, everything) its kind of a pain to install EVERYTHING EVERY 6months, which you would have to do if you wipe and reinstall fresh. I know PreUpgrade never really lost the aura of "Sure you can use it, it SHOULD work in theory... but don't come crying if it doesnt" and I was just curious if the Fedora team had more faith in FedUp to handle proper upgrading between versions to where reinstalling could be considered "Plan B" for upgrades.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    Adam, Rahul,

    is FedUp going to be the new "recommended" way to upgrade Fedora? Not meaning to bash Fedora per say, but if you want a fully functioning desktop on Fedora (all codecs, plugins, everything) its kind of a pain to install EVERYTHING EVERY 6months, which you would have to do if you wipe and reinstall fresh. I know PreUpgrade never really lost the aura of "Sure you can use it, it SHOULD work in theory... but don't come crying if it doesnt" and I was just curious if the Fedora team had more faith in FedUp to handle proper upgrading between versions to where reinstalling could be considered "Plan B" for upgrades.
    Fedup is the *only* recommended way to do Fedora upgrades since Anaconda doesn't directly have any upgrade functionality in it anymore and hence should be more usable/better tested than PreUpgrade. Fedup also tries to do pretty much just a yum upgrade within a confined systemd target and nothing really fancy.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    Fedup is the *only* recommended way to do Fedora upgrades since Anaconda doesn't directly have any upgrade functionality in it anymore and hence should be more usable/better tested than PreUpgrade. Fedup also tries to do pretty much just a yum upgrade within a confined systemd target and nothing really fancy.
    Lemme rephrase the question

    Fedora fresh installs are annoying (again, not bashing, I love fedora). I've got a desktop that I like to keep upgraded on the latest version of X distro-- right now its running Win7 for gaming but with the UVD and DPM work I may come back to Linux on it. Do the Devs have enough faith in FedUp to say "If you're on Fedora 18 and want to go to 19, we completely and whole heartedly believe that a 'fedup --network 19' is more than enough and stable enough to do that upgrade 99 times out of 100 and you should only have to reinstall fresh if you want to change something, like partition layout, that can only be done from an installer"

    OR

    does FedUp fall into the same boat as PreUpgrade did where its "You can try, but you get to keep the pieces."

    My desktop is more of my workhorse, laptop is my playground, so I've got no problem doing a fresh install on my laptop every 6months-- that doesnt bother me, but If I put Fedora back on my desktop I want to be like "okay, when Fedora 20 comes out all I have to do is 'fedup --network 20', let it run overnight and when I get up in the morning everything will be sunshine and daisies and perfect!"

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    does FedUp fall into the same boat as PreUpgrade did where its "You can try, but you get to keep the pieces."

    My desktop is more of my workhorse, laptop is my playground, so I've got no problem doing a fresh install on my laptop every 6months-- that doesnt bother me, but If I put Fedora back on my desktop I want to be like "okay, when Fedora 20 comes out all I have to do is 'fedup --network 20', let it run overnight and when I get up in the morning everything will be sunshine and daisies and perfect!"
    Preupgrade was never really a do it on your own risk thing. It was recommended and tested but it never got as much as developer attention as fedup does because Anaconda provided an alternative upgrade path. fedup being the only recommended solution is bound to get more testing and fixes. My personal experience with fedup so far has been good but I don't expect it to be perfect for everyone.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RahulSundaram View Post
    Preupgrade was never really a do it on your own risk thing. It was recommended and tested but it never got as much as developer attention as fedup does because Anaconda provided an alternative upgrade path. fedup being the only recommended solution is bound to get more testing and fixes. My personal experience with fedup so far has been good but I don't expect it to be perfect for everyone.
    The same experience i've had, two perfectly fine updates. And I say PreUpgrade was a "do it at your own risk" because the wiki was filled with "Good luck!" warnings and the likes last I checked, which at least to me always made PreUpgrade come across as half-assed or not-fully supported upgrade method. I am glad to hear though that FedUp will get more testing and fixes, even if comes at the cost of Anaconda having lost its upgrade capabilities
    Last edited by Ericg; 07-02-2013 at 11:32 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AdamW View Post
    That is a rather ugly workaround, not a fix. If some other operation has the rpm or yum database locked, then you can 'ask that operation to go away', but it is not always going to be in a cancel-able state, and it's probably more dangerous to go around offering to let people cancel packaging operations willy-nilly just so another packaging operation will start faster.

    Proper fixes would involve making locking less necessary and adjusting tools to need to use it less often and for less time.
    That's why I said "ask", not "force". PackageKit can refuse to quit if it's in an important stage, in which case YaST will tell you that it didn't quit when asked, and so you can retry later.

    Of course, making things more efficient is always nice, but locks are always going to be there. If PackageKit could search for updates without locking, and you installed something new during the time, the things that it needs to update could then be outdated. Asking PackageKit to suspend checking for updates while the user is doing package management themselves makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackiwid View Post
    uvd of course ^^ does shader based even give you anithing that helps at all? ^^ I thought thats nothing usefull.

    But back to the point... is the right firmware not included int he kernel-3.10-package?
    Of course it does, otherwise it wouldn't be there. It's just relatively inefficient and quite buggy.

    Not sure about Fedora, but in openSUSE the firmware is in its own package, kernel-firmware.

  7. #27
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    I've had the worst Linux experiences with Fedora (particularly 18 and 16), that I think I'll pass this time (the only reason I kept trying was because my first Linux experience was with Fedora (Fedora Core 6, I think)). Last time neither proprietary nor open-source video drivers worked so had to fallback to VESA (open-source for Intel and AMD didn't recognize the models, and I upgraded to the latest with yum; proprietary Catalyst seg faulted).

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericg View Post
    Not meaning to bash Fedora per say, but if you want a fully functioning desktop on Fedora (all codecs, plugins, everything) its kind of a pain to install EVERYTHING EVERY 6months, which you would have to do if you wipe and reinstall fresh.
    Don't be lazy I reinstall everything, and it keeps PCs clean. It's a good incentive to remove unnecessary data off your disk, and also roots out any possible problems with misconfiguration that can arise between different versions. And if you think it's a pain to reinstall every 6 months, you can use a distro with a slower release cycle Or just don't upgrade at all. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Our laptop in the household still runs on openSUSE 12.2, because it works just fine. I'll upgrade only once 12.2 goes out of support.
    Last edited by GreatEmerald; 07-03-2013 at 02:44 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatEmerald View Post
    Don't be lazy I reinstall everything, and it keeps PCs clean. It's a good incentive to remove unnecessary data off your disk, and also roots out any possible problems with misconfiguration that can arise between different versions. And if you think it's a pain to reinstall every 6 months, you can use a distro with a slower release cycle Or just don't upgrade at all. If it's not broken, don't fix it. Our laptop in the household still runs on openSUSE 12.2, because it works just fine. I'll upgrade only once 12.2 goes out of support.
    Good point. Really, I have to admit, I love the "If it aint broke" argument. It makes sense in many, many situations.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
    I've had the worst Linux experiences with Fedora (particularly 18 and 16), that I think I'll pass this time (the only reason I kept trying was because my first Linux experience was with Fedora (Fedora Core 6, I think)). Last time neither proprietary nor open-source video drivers worked so had to fallback to VESA (open-source for Intel and AMD didn't recognize the models, and I upgraded to the latest with yum; proprietary Catalyst seg faulted).
    If you may share your device specification, many of Fedora guys here might help.

    Fedora 19 is equipped with latest open source graphic stack. It should be fine with majority of GPUs.

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