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Thread: GNOME's GTK+ 3.10 Irons Out HiDPI, Wayland Support

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    Default GNOME's GTK+ 3.10 Irons Out HiDPI, Wayland Support

    Phoronix: GNOME's GTK+ 3.10 Irons Out HiDPI, Wayland Support

    At GUADEC last week besides drafting Wayland plans for GNOME, there was a BoF session for GNOME's toolkit. Here's some of the stuff that's upcoming for the GTK+ 3.10 tool-kit...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQzMDY

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    "retina-like displays" hmm even Linus will like this just not the buzzword part

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Since then Gnome have been put into RHEL7, got a classic session
    Redhat completely rejected Gnome's design and probably requested classic session(Gnome tried to drop it).
    I wouldn't call that success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Michael,

    you once wrote that GNOME Is Losing Relevance On The Linux Desktop. How does that fit today? I would say very little. Since then Gnome have been put into RHEL7, got a classic session, new apps and is now leading Wayland/Weston development.

    Time to do a follow up?
    In a sense though GTK is still losing relevence.. Gnome really burned bridges that it couldn't afford to with Gnome-Shell. And I don't just mean the UI, the entire attitude of the devs was "Fuck off, we dont care what you think" which isn't healthy for a project.

    LXDE is moving to Qt4/5 since GTK3 uses more resources than GTK2 did and even more than Qt apparently, which hurts.

    GTK on Windows and Mac still look ugly as all hell last time I used GIMP (granted, a few months ago) while Qt looks just fine-- which hurts GTK's multi-platform appeal. What hurts it even more is Qt getting support for Android and iOS.

    Side point: as developer and user I'm not thrilled that Gnome is embracing more and more the idea of gconf... just reminds me more and more of the Windows Registry.

    I'm not saying that Gnome is all bad-- I love Gnome Disks and Gnome Movie Player, they make good APPS. But Management, like always, seems to be screwy in the head.

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    DPI independent UI would be really nice. But I'll take the Wayland support first, thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    GTK does fine. More contributors than ever, and a future merge with Clutter is nearing. No need to doom stuff that is doing fine. If you are looking for a toolkit losing its developers go look at Qt5, most of the Nokia-effect is gone now and the amount of contributors are dropping rapidly. Anyway I can't see what all this Qt talk has to do with Gnome being dead or alive. Qt is totally out of the question because it is controlled by one company and handicapped by non-free contributor agreements. Qt is the same wrong answer as MIR.
    Its "controlled by one company" (Digia) in the same way KDE is controlled by one company (KDE E.v.) Digia / Qt Project have no problem accepting outside code and outside Qt-modules as long as someone will maintain it. Also, the contributor agreement is a complete non-issue thanks to: http://www.kde.org/community/whatisk...foundation.php

    Digia wants to make money off Qt, thats fine, there's no problem with that. The agreement makes sure their greed doesn't override the community because if they ever WOULD let their greed rule their entire money-making operation crumbles over night. Qt and Mir are vastly different situations.

    And I brought in Qt in the post above because if you're talking about one thing dying you are of course also going to be talking about the thing that will take its place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    If you are looking for a toolkit losing its developers go look at Qt5, most of the Nokia-effect is gone now and the amount of contributors are dropping rapidly.
    Right... it seems to be doing fine. It has been picked up by three mobile companies in the past year or so; BlackBerry, Jolla and Ubuntu. Projects like OpenShot, Subsurface and LXDE are moving from GTK+ to Qt as are other projects like Unity. It's about to get support for three new platforms: iOS, Android and WinRT. Projects like Qt Quick 2 are improving in fast phase and so on and so forth. I don't really see anything slowing down.


    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Qt is totally out of the question because it is controlled by one company and handicapped by non-free contributor agreements.
    No it's not. Altough Digia is the primary contributor to Qt, other companies like KDAB, Intel and BlackBerry and the KDE community maintain its various components.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Digia can do what ever they want. Even deprecate what ever part of Qt you like. There is nothing you can do about it, besides forking and maintaining dead code your self.
    Qt is under open governance. Even if Digia no longer developers certain components, the community can pick it up and it won't be depracated. I don't see the difference between GTK+ community, as if the GTK+ maintainer couldn't depracate any part of GTK+ that he wants. Qt maintains API and ABI compatibility for a one major release cycle at the time (5-7 years).

    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    *Linux Desktop* is about what happens on this very specific platform.
    ...and communities like KDE, LXDE, Hawaii and Ubuntu have chosen Qt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    GTK talks about doing upstream Wayland/Weston development.
    GTK is not a person... Qt has very good Wayland support and it even carries a reference compositor implementation developed by Digia.

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    When (if) are they gonna post videos from GUADEC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Teho View Post
    Right... it seems to be doing fine. It has been picked up by three mobile companies in the past year or so; BlackBerry, Jolla and Ubuntu. Projects like OpenShot, Subsurface and LXDE are moving from GTK+ to Qt as are other projects like Unity. It's about to get support for three new platforms: iOS, Android and WinRT. Projects like Qt Quick 2 are improving in fast phase and so on and so forth. I don't really see anything slowing down.


    No it's not. Altough Digia is the primary contributor to Qt, other companies like KDAB, Intel and BlackBerry and the KDE community maintain its various components.

    Qt is under open governance. Even if Digia no longer developers certain components, the community can pick it up and it won't be depracated. I don't see the difference between GTK+ community, as if the GTK+ maintainer couldn't depracate any part of GTK+ that he wants. Qt maintains API and ABI compatibility for a one major release cycle at the time (5-7 years).

    ...and communities like KDE, LXDE, Hawaii and Ubuntu have chosen Qt.

    GTK is not a person... Qt has very good Wayland support and it even carries a reference compositor implementation developed by Digia.
    QT can go Under BSD like License or any one it picks at any time killing the old License's too far as i know
    hmm QT BSD "Ubuntu BSD" http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...for-commercial

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Yay. iOS, WinRT, Blackberry. Go forth *Linux desktop*
    Good luck marketing a toolkit that runs on only one platform to developers...

    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Open governance is new-speak like Unity, Harmony and MIR. You would be a sucker to believe such words.
    I just showed you how KDAB, Intel, KDE and BlackBerry maintain offical Qt modules... the Qt bug reports, mailinglists, commit reviews and repositories are in the open and so on and so forth. It has nothing to do with Unity, Harmony or Mir either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    We were talking about what impact the Qt free foundation could make. It can do nothing about Digia deprecating/removing vital parts of Qt Free. All Digia needs to do is spitting out a release bump every year. Release notes: "New Qt Free version XX. This time we added extra performance and security by removing unsupported code and you gained a new API to poll the CPU for a awesome new CPU toaster feature. Have Fun!"
    Yet what Digia does is push more and more open source software out... the only thing Qt could lose is the contributions from Digia but that's empty threat as it would make absolutely no sense for Digia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Honton View Post
    Right. Qt did nothing for Wayland during the KDE summer summit. This is totally contrasted by the GTK crew.
    I don't see how that's relevant. I mean it's cool that Gnome people engage with other communities but it's not as if everyone would need to do the samething they do at the same time all the time. That being said; I would think that Jolla announcing that their first smartphone that's going to be released later this year is going to use Qt with Wayland is pretty big thing.

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