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Thread: Radeon Driver On XMir Still Is Messy Experience

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by duby229 View Post
    EGL and GLX will both be supported so it should work either way. EGL isnt really designed for games, it's more for creating user interfaces. GLX is what you want to use for games.
    Really? I was under the impression that EGL provides just as much functionality as GLX does, but is window-system independent rather than GLX that is specific to X (In the same way WGL is to Windows and CGL to Mac).
    So, when there is no X anymore we're no longer running GLX, right? And apps that uses GLX will have to go with some GLX-to-EGL wrapper, am I correct?
    Last edited by birdstream; 08-08-2013 at 04:36 AM.

  2. #22
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    No game will have to be written in EGL. Games use OpenGL and mostly trough toolkits like SDL. That's why games like Doom 3, Neverball and the Nintendo Gamecube emulator Dolphin work with Wayland, when you export the SDL_VIDEODRIVER variable to be "wayland". That's it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZdXu1VM_VQ

    http://static.hackmii.com/dhewg/dhewm3_wl.webm

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTQyMjQ
    Last edited by blackout23; 08-08-2013 at 04:47 AM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackout23 View Post
    No game will have to be written in EGL. Games use OpenGL and mostly trough toolkits like SDL. That's why games like Doom 3, Neverball and the Nintendo Gamecube emulator Dolphin work with Wayland, when you export the SDL_VIDEODRIVER variable to be "wayland". That's it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZdXu1VM_VQ

    http://static.hackmii.com/dhewg/dhewm3_wl.webm

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTQyMjQ
    I play mostly Dota2 and Euro Truck Simulator 2 at the time being I think Dota2 uses SDL(?) can't say what ETS2 uses though.. And also World Of Tanks using PlayOnLinux/Wine. Performance is good, and have been improved.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdstream View Post
    I play mostly Dota2 and Euro Truck Simulator 2 at the time being I think Dota2 uses SDL(?) can't say what ETS2 uses though.. And also World Of Tanks using PlayOnLinux/Wine. Performance is good, and have been improved.
    Yes, Dota2 uses SDL, just like any other source game (with the only exception that they finally use OpenAL instead of SDL for sound). No idea what ETS2 uses, too, but games played through Wine are a completely different story as they talk to Windows APIs. So the question is what Wine uses. AFAIK it uses GLX, but I might be wrong here.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAXI View Post
    Yes, Dota2 uses SDL, just like any other source game (with the only exception that they finally use OpenAL instead of SDL for sound). No idea what ETS2 uses, too, but games played through Wine are a completely different story as they talk to Windows APIs. So the question is what Wine uses. AFAIK it uses GLX, but I might be wrong here.
    EGL should be easy to add to WINE if it doesn't have an EGL backend yet. It has to have some kind of abstraction layer already so that it can run on OSX (which doesn't provide GLX).

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by smitty3268 View Post
    EGL should be easy to add to WINE if it doesn't have an EGL backend yet. It has to have some kind of abstraction layer already so that it can run on OSX (which doesn't provide GLX).
    Surely there must be support for that when Mir lands. However, it's going to be interesting to follow the development the coming months. I don't have much insight in how everything comes together regarding GLX, DRI2, EGL and such, as i'm no programmer. But i can see why we need to ditch X, and as far as i understand by reading various articles Wayland & Mir should (at least in theory) provide nothing but improved performance.
    Why did Canonical decide to go with Mir instead of Wayland, though? I think i read something way back that NVidia stated that they wouldn't support Wayland?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdstream View Post
    Surely there must be support for that when Mir lands. However, it's going to be interesting to follow the development the coming months. I don't have much insight in how everything comes together regarding GLX, DRI2, EGL and such, as i'm no programmer. But i can see why we need to ditch X, and as far as i understand by reading various articles Wayland & Mir should (at least in theory) provide nothing but improved performance.
    Why did Canonical decide to go with Mir instead of Wayland, though? I think i read something way back that NVidia stated that they wouldn't support Wayland?
    X is going to be around for a Long time at it's good for a lot of things and Nvidia has been working on EGL Drivers for years now all the way back to 2009 i think

    Canonical decided to go with Mir was for 2 things one PR two Control if Developers only Develop for Mir this will allow them to kill off the competition do to Vendor lock-in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in Canonical is the MS of Linux's "Embrace, extend, and exterminate"


    "Longtime Linux kernel developer Matthew Garrett criticized choice of licensing for Canonical’s software projects, particularly Mir. Mir is licensed under GPLv3 – “an odd one” for “GPLv3-hostile markets” – but contributors are required to sign an agreement that “grants Canonical the right to relicense your contribution under their choice of license. This means that, despite not being the sole copyright holder, Canonical are free to relicense your code under a proprietary license.” He concludes that this creates asymmetry where “you end up with a situation that looks awfully like Canonical wanting to squash competition by making it impossible for anyone else to sell modified versions of Canonical’s software in the same market.”

    Ubuntu for Android will most likely be Closed Source for commercial that means Preinstalled
    http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...for-commercial

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    X is going to be around for a Long time at it's good for a lot of things and Nvidia has been working on EGL Drivers for years now all the way back to 2009 i think

    Canonical decided to go with Mir was for 2 things one PR two Control if Developers only Develop for Mir this will allow them to kill off the competition do to Vendor lock-in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendor_lock-in Canonical is the MS of Linux's "Embrace, extend, and exterminate"


    "Longtime Linux kernel developer Matthew Garrett criticized choice of licensing for Canonical’s software projects, particularly Mir. Mir is licensed under GPLv3 – “an odd one” for “GPLv3-hostile markets” – but contributors are required to sign an agreement that “grants Canonical the right to relicense your contribution under their choice of license. This means that, despite not being the sole copyright holder, Canonical are free to relicense your code under a proprietary license.” He concludes that this creates asymmetry where “you end up with a situation that looks awfully like Canonical wanting to squash competition by making it impossible for anyone else to sell modified versions of Canonical’s software in the same market.”

    Ubuntu for Android will most likely be Closed Source for commercial that means Preinstalled
    http://phoronix.com/forums/showthrea...for-commercial
    Yeah I cannot say I really like where Canonical's heading, either.. But I still like Ubuntu as it is now and I guess we'll just have to see how things goes. I'll just stick to whatever works best for me, and don't screw up my gaming

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdstream View Post
    Why did Canonical decide to go with Mir instead of Wayland, though? I think i read something way back that NVidia stated that they wouldn't support Wayland?
    The reason why they decided to do that is not really known. Possibly ignorance, possibly lack of proper dialogue with the community, possibly in order to gain more influence and/or money... Maybe all of them combined.

    And no, NVIDIA stated that they didn't support Wayland a few years back, because it wasn't ready yet. Currently there has been no information on whether they consider Wayland to be important enough to support or not. Also note that if they don't support Wayland, they don't support Mir either. And vice versa, if they support Wayland, they support Mir. It's only EGL that is needed for the support of both (there's one more extension that would be nice to have for Wayland, but that can be worked around in software).

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by birdstream View Post
    Yeah I cannot say I really like where Canonical's heading, either.. But I still like Ubuntu as it is now and I guess we'll just have to see how things goes. I'll just stick to whatever works best for me, and don't screw up my gaming
    i like The Ubuntu Project i just don't like Canonical at all and it's just sad they have power over a project like that and a lot of it's Developers Etc are on Canonical Payroll i say it's Best to use a Linux like Mint just to be on the safe side

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