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Thread: Lots Of Ubuntu Mir Changes Expected Next Week

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    Default Lots Of Ubuntu Mir Changes Expected Next Week

    Phoronix: Lots Of Ubuntu Mir Changes Expected Next Week

    Ahead of the Ubuntu 13.10 feature freeze, expect Mir multi-monitor support and composition bypass support to land around next week...

    http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=MTQzNzY

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    I still don't get it.
    News is Mir lands in 13.10 but then I only hear about the phone version actually working.
    Still if desktop Mir is enabled in 13.10 will the Gnome apps work directly on Mir? If thru Xmir then there's little to no value using Mir.
    If Gnome apps will run natively - where are the patches? What gives?
    Last edited by mark45; 08-15-2013 at 07:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark45 View Post
    I still don't get it.
    News is Mir lands in 13.10 but then I only hear about the phone version actually working.
    Still if desktop Mir is enabled in 13.10 will the Gnome apps work directly on Mir? If thru Xmir then there's little to no value using Mir.
    If Gnome apps will run natively - where are the patches? What gives?
    Absolutely nothing will run directly on Mir except full-screen OpenGL things like games. All other apps will run through a full-screen XMir "window".
    At least that's what I've seen so far.

    To me it seems like a publicity stunt gone wrong. They are intentionally slowing down their distribution to showcase a product that (A) isn't close to being finished (read: usable) and (B) Isn't even being USED except to pass data to a running X window because of (A).

    Mir is fine and all for them (I am personally on the Wayland side, but I'm not a fanatic about it), but don't INTENTIONALLY f**k up your distro. Seriously people...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    Absolutely nothing will run directly on Mir except full-screen OpenGL things like games. All other apps will run through a full-screen XMir "window".
    At least that's what I've seen so far.

    To me it seems like a publicity stunt gone wrong. They are intentionally slowing down their distribution to showcase a product that (A) isn't close to being finished (read: usable) and (B) Isn't even being USED except to pass data to a running X window because of (A).

    Mir is fine and all for them (I am personally on the Wayland side, but I'm not a fanatic about it), but don't INTENTIONALLY f**k up your distro. Seriously people...
    after KDE/gnome wars we have now Wayland/Mir wars its pathetic
    but as a pragmatic i think Mir will win the battle
    i guess they will get support from GPUs vendors and Valve
    Ubuntu is the leading distro love it or hate it and it has the merit of bringing linux to the masses it has the largest userbase just compare between ubuntuforums and fedoraforums: 1000% larger!

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    Quote Originally Posted by benalib View Post
    after KDE/gnome wars we have now Wayland/Mir wars its pathetic
    but as a pragmatic i think Mir will win the battle
    i guess they will get support from GPUs vendors and Valve
    Ubuntu is the leading distro love it or hate it and it has the merit of bringing linux to the masses it has the largest userbase just compare between ubuntuforums and fedoraforums: 1000% larger!
    "After" KDE/Gnome wars haha.

    But like I said, I'm not against Mir, I just prefer Wayland.
    As for the GPU support, it's been said before but both Mir and Wayland use EGL backends (well, I was told that Wayland is backend agnostic, but I assume it's most common use will be EGL) so a GPU driver that supports Mir will work with Wayland (and vice versa) with little to no effort.

    Also, you can't forget that RHEL has decided to support Wayland, and the GPU manufacturers aren't just going to give up their enterprise user-base

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    Quote Originally Posted by benalib View Post
    after KDE/gnome wars we have now Wayland/Mir wars its pathetic
    but as a pragmatic i think Mir will win the battle
    i guess they will get support from GPUs vendors and Valve
    Ubuntu is the leading distro love it or hate it and it has the merit of bringing linux to the masses it has the largest userbase just compare between ubuntuforums and fedoraforums: 1000% larger!
    mir will win the battle on ubuntu, and wayland on the others distributions..amd drivers continue to run slow on linux than windows, for me the only option for playing is windows, and linux for other 2d taks..., I don't need more shit closed drivers by amd, no mir and no steam on linux for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daktyl198 View Post
    "After" KDE/Gnome wars haha.

    But like I said, I'm not against Mir, I just prefer Wayland.
    As for the GPU support, it's been said before but both Mir and Wayland use EGL backends (well, I was told that Wayland is backend agnostic, but I assume it's most common use will be EGL) so a GPU driver that supports Mir will work with Wayland (and vice versa) with little to no effort.

    Also, you can't forget that RHEL has decided to support Wayland, and the GPU manufacturers aren't just going to give up their enterprise user-base
    RHEL let me laugh
    do you think enterprises using RHEL care about advanced 3d support and advanced video playback in their business? come on man!
    gamers video players and 3d developers are more important for GPUs manufacturers
    they will not install RHEL for playing or developing next avatar 3D cinematics
    mesa sh*t is far enough for RHEL and open source drivers are out there
    Last edited by benalib; 08-15-2013 at 08:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandev92 View Post
    mir will win the battle on ubuntu, and wayland on the others distributions..amd drivers continue to run slow on linux than windows, for me the only option for playing is windows, and linux for other 2d taks..., I don't need more shit closed drivers by amd, no mir and no steam on linux for me.
    if there is a hope for the Linux desktop Linux for gamers/the masses/non-technical users, it would be Ubuntu. A strong Linux-based competitor to Windows is the dream of any advocate of open-source software. Ubuntu success means linux desktop success

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    Quote Originally Posted by benalib View Post
    RHEL let me laugh
    do you think enterprises using RHEL care about advanced 3d support and advanced video playback in their business? come on man!
    Of course. Video post-processing, graphics effects, and 3D graphics are three of the major use-cases for workstations. Another is intense number-crunching, which often takes advantage of graphics cards using stuff like CUDA.

    Nvidia has said repeatedly that they make pretty much all of their money on Linux from these sorts of workstations, workstations that primarily use RHEL and SLES. Ubuntu has, in fact, intentionally shunned workstations. Linux desktop users and gamers get to benefit from the drivers because it doesn't involve much extra work for Nvidia, but they have never been much more than an accidental side-effect of Nvidia's work on drivers for Linux workstations and their unified driver architecture. This may change in the future, but right now Nvidia cares primarily about RHEL and SLES. Both of those are targeting Wayland.

    This is getting pretty old. This exact same issue is brought up every time Wayland vs. Mir is discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by benalib View Post
    they will not install RHEL for playing or developing next avatar 3D cinematics
    You mean like Pixar, Dreamworks, and Industrial Light and Magic, all of which us Red Hat?

    Take a look at this article:
    http://www.linuxjournal.com/magazine...hasis?page=0,0
    Count how many are using Ubuntu (1, Weta, which also uses RHEL), and how many are using Red Hat (all the rest).
    Last edited by TheBlackCat; 08-15-2013 at 09:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBlackCat View Post
    Of course. Video post-processing, graphics effects, and 3D graphics are three of the major use-cases for workstations. Another is intense number-crunching, which often takes advantage of graphics cards using stuff like CUDA.

    Nvidia has said repeatedly that they make pretty much all of their money on Linux from these sorts of workstations, workstations that primarily use RHEL and SLES. Ubuntu has, in fact, intentionally shunned workstations. Linux desktop users and gamers get to benefit from the drivers because it doesn't involve much extra work for Nvidia, but they have never been much more than an accidental side-effect of Nvidia's work on drivers for Linux workstations and their unified driver architecture. This may change in the future, but right now Nvidia cares primarily about RHEL and SLES. Both of those are targeting Wayland.

    This is getting pretty old. This exact same issue is brought up every time Wayland vs. Mir is discussed.
    I have yet to see a single ad over the last 10 years by either Nvidia or ATI/AMD aimed at workstations. Yet millions and millions each year are spent by both advertising gaming cards. The key word here is LINUX workstations,which are not all GPU dependant and in the minority compared to windows. Its clear gaming returns a large chunk of revenue on the windows/ console platforms. With linux continually being pushed as a viable gaming platform, with a little help from valve, this whole workstation argument will soon become moot.

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