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Thread: Per-Session Display Configuration For Mir Has Landed

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Who cares about what Mir does? It's just going to fail and be replaced with Wayland eventually, when Canonical notices that no one wants their display server, and it's way too much trouble to maintain than they are capable of...

    Right now, they're just too invested in their little pet project, they've hyped it so much that they can't back out now without "losing face" (or hurting Shuttleworth's ego), so they have to stick to their guns, hope the noise dies down, and later on quietly move back to Wayland with their tail between their legs... Wayland will be used by everyone else, and Ubuntu will eventually be forced to follow suit in order to even remain relevant.
    look how they're staying away from systemd you Think they will use Wayland? (Btw systemd will most likely be needed for Linux down the road)

  2. #12
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    RedHat is moving to systemd, and Oracle will follow suit because they base their distro on RHEL.

    Regardless, Upstart is hardly comparable. It's just an init system, and having a different init system rarely if ever affects compatibility of applications. The same cannot be said of a display system (except if we're talking about CLI applications). Mir will end badly for Ubuntu, they will be forced to at the very least implement client-side compatibility with Wayland - which would effectively make Mir another Wayland compositor. At that point, no one will bother maintaining Mir support, even if they did at that point (which is already unlikely) and eventually, Ubuntu will just quietly phase out the Mir API and just use pure Wayland only.

    It's just a shame for all the damage they'll manage to do in the meanwhile.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    RedHat is moving to systemd, and Oracle will follow suit because they base their distro on RHEL.

    Regardless, Upstart is hardly comparable. It's just an init system, and having a different init system rarely if ever affects compatibility of applications. The same cannot be said of a display system (except if we're talking about CLI applications). Mir will end badly for Ubuntu, they will be forced to at the very least implement client-side compatibility with Wayland - which would effectively make Mir another Wayland compositor. At that point, no one will bother maintaining Mir support, even if they did at that point (which is already unlikely) and eventually, Ubuntu will just quietly phase out the Mir API and just use pure Wayland only.

    It's just a shame for all the damage they'll manage to do in the meanwhile.
    display system's login's Etc will use systemd as well

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    display system's login's Etc will use systemd as well
    They can, they don't have to. There's nothing in the Wayland protocol requiring you to use systemd, it's up to DE's to decide if they want to have hard dependencies to systemd, and Canonical could well implement a Wayland compositor that is compatible with Upstart.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    display system's login's Etc will use systemd as well
    The Systemd project became a kind of large ecosystem which is (ironically?) not dependent on the core Systemd.


    For example, the following services are installed and used by default on Ubuntu (at least on 13.04) :

    systemd-hostnamed
    systemd-localed
    systemd-logind
    systemd-timedated

    These all work perfectly on Upstart.
    (not to mention udev)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dh04000 View Post
    It got picked up by RedHat and Oracle the too biggest Linux server companies in the world?
    Only temporarily. They picked it up because Upstart was better than the old init scripts - but are already dropping it in favour of systemd...

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malizor View Post
    The Systemd project became a kind of large ecosystem which is (ironically?) not dependent on the core Systemd.


    For example, the following services are installed and used by default on Ubuntu (at least on 13.04) :

    systemd-hostnamed
    systemd-localed
    systemd-logind
    systemd-timedated

    These all work perfectly on Upstart.
    (not to mention udev)
    its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of “NIH”-SYNDROME

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of “NIH”-SYNDROME
    Canonical adopted Upstart and hired the key developer. Nothing wrong with that. It was then used by Red Hat+Fedora. Still nothing wrong with that. Now systemd came along and is (IMO) much better. It would be much better if Canonical switched to Upstart and you can argue about them switching yes or no. But nothing wrong with them adopting Upstart. Though IMO get with the times and go systemd! :P

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of “NIH”-SYNDROME
    Honestly, most people won't care exactly how Ubuntu is built as long as it works adequately well. I can't imagine that Canonical will not build some sort of compatibility layer for Wayland apps, even if what that means is running a wayland server rootless. Same goes for upstart. In the end, we'll probably have multiple compatible systems for windowing and init, like most other things in Linux, and I don't understand why everybody seems to be so up in arms over that idea.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinuxGamer View Post
    its will make it easier if they just used systemd as the kernel is getting so many systemd features it's not funny but you know? Canonical has a really bad case of “NIH”-SYNDROME
    Can you point me to any source that would explain that these new kernel features are Systemd only and can not be used by Upstart if needed?
    About NIH, remember that Upstart existed before Systemd...

    As we are on Phoronix and we all love trolling, I would like to remind you the wonderful post of Raof on #wayland-devel after Mir was unveiled :

    23:50 <RAOF> Heh. It's our turn to pull a systemd!

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