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Thread: Planning Begins For Next Week's Ubuntu vUDS Summit

  1. #11
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    I personally don't know about dee., but some guys out there have been clearly committed in Ubuntu fanaticism, up to the point of no return. This said, I've got to admit that Ubuntu has put some recognizable efforts in creating a genuine user experience, even if I can't stand Unity for more than two minutes in a row.

    What fuels the hate -- and I can personally state that I'm quite hating this distribution right now -- is more on the FOSS/technical side of things, in other words, the way they are actually dividing the whole community for the sake of unified desktop/laptop/netbook/ultrabook/tablet/phone/whatever experience. This is not a bad idea, nor is it a wrong decision by any means, but if that's the case, just make the entire community benefit from it. If they had chosen to back Wayland with financial and human support for the purpose of their design, that would have proven useful for anyone out there, in addition to having interesting commits and quicker, more efficient development -- not to mention the potential impact on nVidia and AMD to start supporting Wayland (or start being more involved in Open Source drivers, who knows...).

    Also with the utter failure of Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu Edge, I can't see the point in developing Mir any more, so that the whole time and effort put in it is just lost. Having been committed in Wayland would have brought a very different conclusion to this. What is interesting in this respect is that most blueprints show a deeper interest in cloud computing than in Mir or Ubuntu Phones. Is the effort entirely wasted yet ?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDF420 View Post
    Classic trolling defence
    I can't be critical without being hateful you're just a fanboy lol .
    Nope, trolling refers to purposely posting contrary, exaggerated and inflammatory posts with the express purpose of getting an emotional reaction out of people. See: pretty much every post Bo$$ has made ever since his nervous breakdown. Trolls never engage in rational discussion or debate, and ignore any rational arguments. I've done no such thing in this thread.

    You on the other hand are exhibiting classic fanboy behaviour of accusing people of "trolling" whenever they post something you disagree with. Similar tactics include: calling anything you disagree with "FUD", accusing everyone who disagrees with you of being "haters", misusing the term "ad hominem", etc.

    Nothing wrong with having a differing opinion,Dee, or being critical of something. When the criticism becomes a continual trolling bombardment, repeating the same negativity whenever canonical is mentioned, is seen as trolling, hateful,behaviour.
    I wouldn't even have posted in this thread if some troll hadn't trolled me, which I decided to interpret as an invitation to the discussion. So clearly, if we look at things rationally, we can see that your accusations are baseless.

    Also, there's nothing wrong with being negative, when there is reason to be so. Whenever I've presented a negative view of something, I've always included reasons and arguments for why I think that way. That's entirely reasonable criticism, and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge any criticism and instead dismiss all of it as "trolling" shows that you are not looking at things rationally, but rather from a fanatically emotional perspective. That's not good.

    See, it's ok to like something, and it's ok to be a fan of something you like. But even if you're a fan it doesn't mean that you have to accept everything they do, and defend them from every criticism. That's irrational behaviour, and unfortunately very common - people identify themselves by what group they associate with, and you've chosen to identify yourself as a "Ubuntu user". That leads to a sort of group mentality, us-vs-them thinking, where you divide people to sides and everyone is either with you or against you. But you need to realize that nothing should ever be immune to criticism - when you put things on pedestals like that, when you refuse to think critically, you're doing a disservice not only to yourself but also to the object of your admiration.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Oh, poor widdle babby. Got your fee-fees hurt? Want some cheese with that whine? Etc.

    That good enough for you? Great, now that we got that out of the way... Why should I care about some developer summit by Ubuntu? And why do you suppose I hate Ubuntu? Is it because you're an irrational fanboy, whose only way of dealing with any kind of criticism toward his object of adoration and fanaticism is to dismiss it as "hate"? Would it break your brain to realize that I used to use Ubuntu myself and still wish Canonical to succeed?

    I want nothing but the best for Ubuntu. Mir is a horrible mistake, one which they're going to pay for, and unfortunately it's a mistake is going to affect others than Ubuntu/Canonical. As a prominent and well-known distribution, Ubuntu should bear some responsibility towards the community, and consider how their actions affect the success of desktop Linux as a whole. Nevertheless, I don't hate Canonical, I never have hated them, and I have no reason to hate them. They're like a troubled child who behave badly because they don't know any better - you don't hate your child just because he sets your house on fire, but you can certainly be reproachful of his actions.
    The fact you feel you need to abuse me and others I why I say you post hate. I have no idea why the mods tolerate your honestly disgusting attacks on people here on the forum. You don't fight points, you try to harm others.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dh04000 View Post
    The fact you feel you need to abuse me and others I why I say you post hate. I have no idea why the mods tolerate your honestly disgusting attacks on people here on the forum. You don't fight points, you try to harm others.
    The only honestly disgusting attack I see here in this thread is yours...

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by omer666 View Post
    I personally don't know about dee., but some guys out there have been clearly committed in Ubuntu fanaticism, up to the point of no return. This said, I've got to admit that Ubuntu has put some recognizable efforts in creating a genuine user experience, even if I can't stand Unity for more than two minutes in a row.
    dee. is supposedly a hater, not a fan.

    What fuels the hate -- and I can personally state that I'm quite hating this distribution right now -- is more on the FOSS/technical side of things, in other words, the way they are actually dividing the whole community for the sake of unified desktop/laptop/netbook/ultrabook/tablet/phone/whatever experience.
    That's in the best case. AFAIK, there's nothing stopping them to do the same things with Wayland, and no technical reasons were disclosed.

    This is not a bad idea, nor is it a wrong decision by any means, but if that's the case, just make the entire community benefit from it. If they had chosen to back Wayland with financial and human support for the purpose of their design, that would have proven useful for anyone out there, in addition to having interesting commits and quicker, more efficient development -- not to mention the potential impact on nVidia and AMD to start supporting Wayland (or start being more involved in Open Source drivers, who knows...).
    Well, even if that would probably make things somewhat better, they aren't inherently in a powerless position right now. Intel backs Wayland, Red Hat, too, and both are much bigger companies (money wise) than Canonical. And money usually implies influence.
    The problem is not that they could help, but that they could avoid dividing.

    Also with the utter failure of Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu Edge, I can't see the point in developing Mir any more, so that the whole time and effort put in it is just lost. Having been committed in Wayland would have brought a very different conclusion to this. What is interesting in this respect is that most blueprints show a deeper interest in cloud computing than in Mir or Ubuntu Phones. Is the effort entirely wasted yet ?
    I've never saw the point of Mir, so feel lucky yourself
    Now, trolling aside, I never saw any technical reasons to go Mir, and at the time it seemed to materialize (when the announcement was made, I just assumed it would fail some weeks later, so I disregarded it), I thought the possible problems in an overblown way, so I was REALLY pissed at them. And I'm still quite pissed on XMir, I think it's an awful idea to add such extra layer.

    Quote Originally Posted by dee. View Post
    Long post that will take a lot of space, on fanaticism.
    The way you put it, it reminds me to the movie "The wave".

    Quote Originally Posted by dh04000 View Post
    The fact you feel you need to abuse me and others I why I say you post hate. I have no idea why the mods tolerate your honestly disgusting attacks on people here on the forum. You don't fight points, you try to harm others.
    Could you point out where the attacks are? I didn't see such a thing on this thread. Are any on other thread?
    Also, if you feel he's attacking someone, there's a report button, and maybe the mods "tolerate" such attitudes because they don't know about them.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrugiero View Post
    The problem is not that they could help, but that they could avoid dividing.
    Indeed ! But I think one fact added to the other makes the whole thing even more... regrettable, to say the least.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dh04000 View Post
    The fact you feel you need to abuse me and others I why I say you post hate. I have no idea why the mods tolerate your honestly disgusting attacks on people here on the forum. You don't fight points, you try to harm others.
    Ah, so that's your next step. Can I say you're as predictable as sunrise on the north pole, or is that another "disgusting attack" on your character?

    It's easy for you to claim I "don't fight points" when you don't bother addressing any points I make, and rather ignore them and try to dodge the issue by evasive maneuvers, such as attempting to direct the conversation towards my bedside manner.

    Do however note that I haven't made any personal insults towards you. I haven't called you a "whiny, butthurt little bitch" or any such thing. Inference does not equal implication, if you infer out of my posts that I think you're a whiny little bitch, that's not my fault because I've never said or even implied any such thing. I'm being perfectly civil and cordial.

    I do think you're an irrational fanboy, or at the very least behaving like one. That's not a personal insult, that's a honest assessment of your behaviour so far. I've explained, very clearly and consicely, why that is the case. If you do not want to be seen as an irrational fanboy throwing a tantrum, I suggest you engage in some actual discussion and address some points, make some actual arguments for why you think Canonical is justified in their recent decisions. Refute the criticism with logical arguments, instead of tantrums and logical fallacies. Don't accuse people who criticize Canonical's actions of "hate" or "jealousy" or any such thing - show why they are wrong by making rational points. Until you start doing that, no one here is going to take you seriously - barring, of course, other members of your in-group, but if you only want to engage with people who agree with you I suggest you stick to Ubuntu forums or somesuch.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by omer666 View Post
    Also with the utter failure of Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu Edge, I can't see the point in developing Mir any more, so that the whole time and effort put in it is just lost.
    Ubuntu phone hasn't even been released yet. Where did it fail? (Ubuntu Edge is a different project)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by boast View Post
    Ubuntu phone hasn't even been released yet. Where did it fail? (Ubuntu Edge is a different project)
    Where it didn't get attention from hardware manufacturers, which led to them trying to crowd-fund Ubuntu Edge, which failed as well.

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