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Thread: Good choice, bad choice.

  1. #1
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    Default Good choice, bad choice.

    Linux is all about choice - one would say. Not anymore. It more like free speech in political correctness - you can't tell anything what annoys blind mob rule. You can write Linux software as long as it is compliant with mob rule in Linux (so-called) community. Of course, we can always discuss reasoning behind moves of some companies, people, but we have to honour free will and cannot bash one for differentiating from others. Currently Linux community is in a safe jail - you can't get your stuff done because of mythical choice. You can't properly edit your photos, you can't safely produce audio-video content, you can't just watch a video on Netflix, you can't even use Skype without hiccups. You don't have any real choice - choice of wide variety of useful programs. You can only choose DE's, skins, sh interpreters - it's like choosing a color of walls in your cell, it does not make you free in any way. You're still in a safe, warm jail, where you don't have to worry about real world, because you can always repaint walls or rearrange furniture in your cell, that's what is making you busy and not thinking about the real world. And that does not make you free by any means.

    Ubuntu broke from that jail, or is trying to do so, at least. Being polite and surrendering to Intel or Red Hat might help Canonical with living inside this jail. It wouldn't allow them to gain wider audience. Red Hat, Debian, OpenSuSE, Mint, Fedora, Gentoo, Arch, etc. - they are not interested in braking free from that jail. They just want to make their living in jail more careless and convenient. No design, no responsibility, no vision. It's scary...

    Now we have the Mir thing - Canonical sees that Wayland is nowhere about being ready to deploy, and won't be for years. Progress is so slow that whole era has passed from putting first lines of its code. 5 years - and Wayland is not delivering anything useful, ready for deploying in everyday life. Of course it has tons of features, but I can't even test them. And it is developed in old-fashioned Linux-way - no tests, no hurry, no plan, no vision, no integration and trying to satisfy everyone (what means a lot of compromise).

    Anti-Canoncial guys state that Canonical can't develop a good display server, because they "do not have manpower", nor "have any experience" and it will be a "one-distribution solution". Of course if they thrown code and money into Wayland you would say exactly the same. As you said with GTK patches. As you told "go f*ck yourselves" with AppIndicator standard (derived from KDE) and developed your own for GNOME, because of your IBC (Invented By Canonical) syndrome. So why waste money and time on trying to satisfy always unsatisfied community? You want Mark to throw money into Wayland development and sit down quiet, accepting everything what community brings, not even willing to modify a piece. Canonical is a bunch of clever people, and they see that continuing efforts to be 100% Linux-compliant is nothing but futile. It blocks them from delivering a good product. You don't have any SDK for Linux and you won't have, therefore Ubuntu SDK (which can be used by any distro - together with Mir and Click packages). Yes, they follow some of Apple or MS policies (btw. good policies) - but they're still creating OpenSource software, which you can get, redistribute, modify for free, without any not-OpenSource limitation.

    They took away their toys (and users) to their new sandbox, and you're getting angry, because you see that they are the ones who have drawn a lot of attention towards Linux. They made the Steam possible, they have millions of plain non-IT users. They are the ones that are getting momentum. Not Debian, not Mint, not Arch, not Fedora. They are the third desktop OS - whether you like it or not. But you are blind to the fact that it is also their last shot, their to be or not to be. In 2 years everything will be clear - we will know by then if Ubuntu was a failure or a success. And you're not helping at all, not even being a fair competition - you're just tripping them over, because they run faster than you. That's awful.

    So far everything is progressing well - I can run Mir and use it for everyday tasks. I can check how SDK, Click, Ubuntu Touch work without any ridiculous hacking. I wish them everything best - I want to see a fresh new face of Linux, a different way to create an OS based upon it, laid by user's needs and designers, not by selfish nerds.
    Last edited by Siekacz; 09-08-2013 at 08:45 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siekacz View Post
    So far everything is progressing well - I can run Mir and use it for everyday tasks.
    Really? Which applications are you running for your everyday tasks on Mir? May I assume that you don't use Nvidia or AMD video hardware?
    By the way, you should inform the people on the Fedora mailing lists that they should stop working on full Wayland support for Fedora 21, since it still needs years to be ready. Would be the logical way, since you seem to know more than they now about Wayland.

    Oh, before I forget it, have fun in your walled garden, speaking about the freedom of choice that you don't have.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vim_User View Post
    Oh, before I forget it, have fun in your walled garden, speaking about the freedom of choice that you don't have.
    Walled garden? Where? Tell me just one thing that I can't do on Ubuntu and can on other distro. You can install every DE, you can install (not supported) Wayland, you can use systemd, you can stick to X for next 10 years. They give you perfect freedom. Everything from SDK to Mir, to Unity 8 will be OpenSource. Oh and before I forget - throw away your Android handset, because it is a walled garden - open are only full releases, they contain a lot of closed apps (YT, FB, Gmail, Maps, Calendar) and almost all the other software (including thousands of launchers) is closed. Having fun with Android smartphone, and then bashing Ubuntu for being walled garden is either blindness and stupidity or pure hypocrisy. Ubuntu is and will be more free. Walled garden in this situation is pure FUD, because nobody takes the choice from you. They just decide to recreate a lot of stuff to have exactly what they want. They DO NOT block you from using any alternative. It is the community which is in fear that now it is Canonical time to rule the desktop Linux, so everyone (including Intel) is trying to trip them over, just because they are in a fear of change.

    And we have significant progress in Wayland development just because Canonical announcement to use Mir. Deal with that.
    Last edited by Siekacz; 09-09-2013 at 05:18 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siekacz View Post
    Having fun with Android smartphone, and then bashing Ubuntu for being walled garden is either blindness and stupidity or pure hypocrisy.
    No, it is not. Simply because I do not pretend my Android phone to be anything else than a walled garden.


    Funny how you totally missed to answer the questions. Which applications do you run on Mir for your everyday tasks?

  5. #5
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    I run everything through XMir - so it is running on Mir, but with X compatibility layer. INB4: "You're not running anything on Mir but on X!", of course I am - just like running Windows programs on Linux using Wine.

    If you don't suppose android not to be a "walled garden", then why do you do so with Ubuntu?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siekacz View Post
    I run everything through XMir - so it is running on Mir, but with X compatibility layer. INB4: "You're not running anything on Mir but on X!", of course I am - just like running Windows programs on Linux using Wine.
    It is pretty obvious that you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Wine is an application layer that translates Windows system calls to Linux. It is not a fully fledged Windows running on top of Linux. XMir is a fully fledged Xserver running on top of Mir (and Mir does nothing more than pass the already rendered image to the hardware). So in fact, you are not running Mir, you are running your stuff in X, comparable to running Windows applications on Windows in a VM. This would be different if you recompile your applications to support Mir natively and run them on Mir. Oh wait, you can't.

    If you don't suppose android not to be a "walled garden", then why do you do so with Ubuntu?
    Because Ubuntu will be a walled garden. They have to be. Canonical wants to make money of Ubuntu, but they don't do it with support, like Red Hat does, they do it with selling additional services, like Ubuntu One or the music store. They also want to sell Ubuntu to hardware manufacturers, especially in the mobile space. Therefore they have to build a walled garden, they do not make money from making Linux as a whole better, they only make money if you specifically use Ubuntu. Did you ever think about why there are Windows clients for Ubuntu One, but no other Linux distro than Ubuntu is supported?

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