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Thread: Fedora 20 Moves Ahead With Wayland Tech Preview

  1. #101
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    POSIX also defines the userspace along with shell and C languages
    it was made when many Unix vendors were forced to agree on some standard, so it says something about the unix way

    thx for the info about rpm
    i liked fedora but lately its grown (even more) complicated and hard headed
    still its good for most, if not all, "normal" users

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    POSIX also defines the userspace along with shell and C languages
    it was made when many Unix vendors were forced to agree on some standard, so it says something about the unix way
    Although I am an ordinary person, I can inform systemd is written in C and can use shell should the user wish. In addition, nothing can stop to set an aliases to
    desired commands. As pointed out, the increasing adoption of systemd displayed a natural evolution to adopt a common ground for distributions either openbsd or slackware as you listed needs to adapt or goes irrelevant.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    thats why fedora is moving away from the UNIX philosophy
    "does one thing and does it well"

    not that the unix way is good but
    systemd is NOT simple

    id need a week to teach someone openbsd or slackware as they are the closest to unix simplicity
    init starts one or the other rc script that starts others
    all rc scripts are simple shell scripts (in slackware and openbsd they are POSIX shell scripts)

    for systemd id have to learn a whole new syntax and many new programs
    (in init you have to learn one file (inittab) and shell scripting that you need to learn anyway along with coreutils)


    freebsd and netbsd use cshell so they are not POSIX systems

    fedora and redhat too ofc have moved faaaar away from POSIX
    and that's not a bad thing considering UNIX was made to be a temporary fix to OS problems
    just dont push systemd onto LSB like you did with rpm and il' still say only good things about redhat to other ppl
    i don't get your point, let me be specific:

    1.) i think this is easier systemctl enable or disable myapp.service is just that easy, in systemd there are no runtime levels
    2.) why many application? basically you need systemctl,loginctl[uneeded for user 99.99% of the time] and journalctl everything else is automatic and for apps
    3.) whole new syntax seem way excessive, see this:
    ---------------------------------------------------
    kdm.service
    [Unit]
    Description=K Display Manager
    After=systemd-user-sessions.service

    [Service]
    ExecStart=/usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon

    [Install]
    Alias=display-manager.service
    ----------------------------------------------------
    i mean is just that easy, you need nothing more than 7-12 lines unless you wanna do very fancy stuff like renice/resource control/per demand/timed start and even so 20 lines is the biggest i could manage to create.

    how could you call this init file harder than slackware/bsd?????, i suggest you actually try using systemd, it seems you have some missunderstandings [Arch/fedora have best implementations]

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrch2k8 View Post
    i mean is just that easy, you need nothing more than 7-12 lines unless you wanna do very fancy stuff like renice/resource control/per demand/timed start and even so 20 lines is the biggest i could manage to create.

    how could you call this init file harder than slackware/bsd?????, i suggest you actually try using systemd, it seems you have some missunderstandings [Arch/fedora have best implementations]
    after writing that i actually spent an hour or so finding out more about systemd
    didnt get far,
    in fact this is its documentation and it says nothing about writing that files

    bdw, same in shell

    if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
    exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
    exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    fi

    its 5 lines 'cuz kde


    never the less systemd is about faster boot, features and integration

    and i didnt come here to fight about what is "better"
    especially that i cant even find how systemd system works
    all i can find is what it does and how awsome it is

    then again, maybe it is awsome
    too many unclear things, il' wait ty

    with loves, gens

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    after writing that i actually spent an hour or so finding out more about systemd
    didnt get far,
    in fact this is its documentation and it says nothing about writing that files
    Read How Do I Convert A SysV Init Script Into A systemd Service File?, list of options inside systemd services and look at jrch2k8's example.
    Other examples:


    I presume you are looking to write a service file.

    bdw, same in shell

    if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
    exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
    exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    fi

    its 5 lines 'cuz kde
    Your example lack comments and description about those purposes of lines. Are those codes a service file or an executable?
    This code may be obvious for you but not for other administrators.
    systemd lets you use shell inside service. Using jrch2k8's example
    Code:
    kdm.service
    [Unit]
    Description=K Display Manager
    After=systemd-user-sessions.service
    
    [Service]
    ExecStart=/bin/sh -c '
    if [ -x /opt/kde/bin/kdm ]; then
      exec /opt/kde/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    elif [ -x /usr/bin/kdm ]; then
      exec /usr/bin/kdm -nodaemon
    fi'
    
    [Install]
    Alias=display-manager.service
    This is only for an example and you can tweak as you please.

    never the less systemd is about faster boot, features and integration
    Faster boot is a side effect of better handling the functions. =)
    Last edited by finalzone; 09-14-2013 at 04:44 PM.

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by finalzone View Post
    Your example lack comments and description about those purposes of lines. Are those codes a service file or an executable?
    This code may be obvious for you but not for other administrators.
    systemd lets you use shell inside service. Using jrch2k8's example
    if a linux/unix administrator can't recognize a snippet of a shell script, then i suggest another job
    init runs the script associated with the requested run level, and thats all it does (dosent have to be a script rly, but i doubt many even know how exec() works)

    faster boot with systemd is a side effect of parallelization, something that a shell can do too

    thx for the links
    don't think i will read them all, since the first paragraph of the first link is pure FUD (read semi lies and bullshit)


    from my last post i investigated bit more about the topic
    it's not for me as it is needlessly complicated (in design, and implementation (the whole thing, not selected part)), and i like simple stuff
    i said i dont wanna fight
    do what you want, just dont force others to comply
    (more precisely, Lennart should stop calling others "archaic morons" (loosely quoted), im younger then him and dont agree on some parts)

    with regards, gens
    Last edited by gens; 09-15-2013 at 06:20 AM.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by gens View Post
    if a linux/unix administrator can't recognize a snippet of a shell script, then i suggest another job
    And you think ignoring what is most likely becoming the standard init-system on Linux is a good way to get your career going?

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